CAI vs. short ram intake
#212
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 688
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From: LA
Originally posted by Gen1GT
LOL...it's pretty funny that somehow you thought I was dissing Honda. I understand what Hondas can do and are capable of, and that they build reliable cars with good engines. The fact that you don't believe what I say about intakes, means you know absolutely nothing about cars or how to make power.
I don't give a rat's ass about torque either. My Protege only has 114 lb/ft and has a fuel cut-off of 7500rpm. The RX-8 would smoke any STOCK Prelude...compare apples to apples if you're going to bring up an arguement like that. And when the Mazdaspeed RX-8 comes out, it'll smoke the S2000 too(they're pretty evenly matched as it is).
Everyone has brand loyalty for different reasons, and as much as I like Honda, and realize the aftermarket potential, everyone and their grandma has one(literally). Mazdas are overlooked, reliable cars, with superior handling. And my Protege GT, with it's 125hp can smoke any factory civic this side of the 97ish Si's. (I've run 16.3@84) The new Si is a total joke. I've got 35 less horsepower, but I'm faster.....
The bottom end of the BP1.8 is capable of 400hp without problems(the J-spec GT-R has 210hp), so it's not like Honda is the only good engine maker out there.
You're right, torque is COMPLETELY related to engine displacement. Good for you. Too bad it's all you seem to know about engines.
And as for Domestics...they're frikkin pieces of horse shit. I would never buy and American if my life depended on it. America screws up cars, like we're screwing up the planet....
LOL...it's pretty funny that somehow you thought I was dissing Honda. I understand what Hondas can do and are capable of, and that they build reliable cars with good engines. The fact that you don't believe what I say about intakes, means you know absolutely nothing about cars or how to make power.
I don't give a rat's ass about torque either. My Protege only has 114 lb/ft and has a fuel cut-off of 7500rpm. The RX-8 would smoke any STOCK Prelude...compare apples to apples if you're going to bring up an arguement like that. And when the Mazdaspeed RX-8 comes out, it'll smoke the S2000 too(they're pretty evenly matched as it is).
Everyone has brand loyalty for different reasons, and as much as I like Honda, and realize the aftermarket potential, everyone and their grandma has one(literally). Mazdas are overlooked, reliable cars, with superior handling. And my Protege GT, with it's 125hp can smoke any factory civic this side of the 97ish Si's. (I've run 16.3@84) The new Si is a total joke. I've got 35 less horsepower, but I'm faster.....
The bottom end of the BP1.8 is capable of 400hp without problems(the J-spec GT-R has 210hp), so it's not like Honda is the only good engine maker out there.
You're right, torque is COMPLETELY related to engine displacement. Good for you. Too bad it's all you seem to know about engines.
And as for Domestics...they're frikkin pieces of horse shit. I would never buy and American if my life depended on it. America screws up cars, like we're screwing up the planet....
about torque: yeah torque is nice, but don't you think it's ironic that a bunch of honda guys are talking about torque? fine in a drag race it might matter a lot more, but my relatively torqueless H22 (tq-less compared to an LS-1) pulls just fine so long as i keep it in powerband coming out of turn 3. anyway, high revving NA motors like the h22, b18, or the Renesis 1.3L in the RX-8 may not jump off the line, but in the end that's not what they were designed to do.
american cars: i will take a Z06, c5 or c6, or a c5R against any japanese import out there. skylines included. it may have an ugly interior, and inferior engine technology but you cannot sleep on the corvette.
about mazda: the RX-8 i don't know. i'm not sure why they didn't go TT with the newest 1.3 it's amazing that they got 240 bhp out of it, but the 130 lbs of torque is a little disappointing for a 30,000 dollar car.
the new mazdaspeed miata on the other hand? i'll take 2 please.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2003
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From: Long Island, NY
i obviously dont know anything about engines especially considering ive built over a dozen of them.
mostly H series (honda's torquiest inline 4)
so i say again
think before you say something stupid :slap:
~boom
mostly H series (honda's torquiest inline 4)
so i say again
think before you say something stupid :slap:
~boom
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6
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If the only 'stupid' thing I said, was that you don't know anything about cars, then get over it. But as far as I'm concerned, a short ram is better than a CAI anyday. Look at the test this guy with a B18C did....
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread/t-633.html
If your cross reference that information with the TPR article, how can you NOT come to the conclusion that short ram is better?
And how do you NOT know that longer, thinner intake piping makes for torque?
Monkey, thanks for the non-biased comments. Most Honda builder/owners tend to be snobbish..........
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread/t-633.html
If your cross reference that information with the TPR article, how can you NOT come to the conclusion that short ram is better?
And how do you NOT know that longer, thinner intake piping makes for torque?
Monkey, thanks for the non-biased comments. Most Honda builder/owners tend to be snobbish..........
Senior Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,052
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
Quote
Originally posted by Ekliptix
I think that the extra length of the intake piping makes a difference on the resonence of the air coming in. That is how CAI give more power from low to mid RPM, where SRA seem to help high RPM's. Yes, I know honda's like to rev, but I can only rev to 6600 before redline anyway.
Quote
Originally posted by B18C
Reading AEM propaganda again?
yea so like i said before you showed up here, the short pipe is better for my application because the air has to travel down the CAI causing a lag in throttle response. assuming you are right about the torque theory (which i dont think u are), it wouldnt matter anyway considering i have a variable volume intake plenum, so my engine already optimizes airflow inside the intake manifold.
i dont have a problem with mazda drivers, i have a problem with mazda drivers who drive 16 second cars (at best) and have 2 posts and come here to talk shit
~boom
Originally posted by Ekliptix
I think that the extra length of the intake piping makes a difference on the resonence of the air coming in. That is how CAI give more power from low to mid RPM, where SRA seem to help high RPM's. Yes, I know honda's like to rev, but I can only rev to 6600 before redline anyway.
Quote
Originally posted by B18C
Reading AEM propaganda again?
yea so like i said before you showed up here, the short pipe is better for my application because the air has to travel down the CAI causing a lag in throttle response. assuming you are right about the torque theory (which i dont think u are), it wouldnt matter anyway considering i have a variable volume intake plenum, so my engine already optimizes airflow inside the intake manifold.
i dont have a problem with mazda drivers, i have a problem with mazda drivers who drive 16 second cars (at best) and have 2 posts and come here to talk shit
~boom
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Firstly, I'm not defending CAI. I'm all about high rpm power. I prefer the short ram. Unfortunately, my car has an AFM, so there aren't even any intakes made for my car, so I'm going to have to get a stand alone ECU and a MAP sensor. Just because my car only runs 16 now, has nothing to do with how much information or knowledge I have. What do stock Type SHs run? mid 15s? My car is going to be doing 14s in the spring..all motor. And for your information, my car also has variable length intake runners(plenums), as well as an intake resonator. Seems Mazda knows how to build engines too.
And oh...since you know so much about cars and Hondas, you would know that the 2.4 CR-V engine has exactly 1 lb/ft more torque than your H22A
Monkey..they didn't turbo the Renesis because they changed the location of the exhaust ports to the side housing, which turns out to make for extremely cool exhaust temperatures....not good for turbo, but since they brought it back...anything is possible.
ludeboom, I'm not trying to start some war here. What I'm saying about intakes is a fact. You can experiment if you'd like. Try a CAI vs SR if you'd like. Dyno and track test both. I'll bet the short ram wins..........
And oh...since you know so much about cars and Hondas, you would know that the 2.4 CR-V engine has exactly 1 lb/ft more torque than your H22A
Monkey..they didn't turbo the Renesis because they changed the location of the exhaust ports to the side housing, which turns out to make for extremely cool exhaust temperatures....not good for turbo, but since they brought it back...anything is possible.
ludeboom, I'm not trying to start some war here. What I'm saying about intakes is a fact. You can experiment if you'd like. Try a CAI vs SR if you'd like. Dyno and track test both. I'll bet the short ram wins..........
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 185
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From: Atlanta, GA
i don't really understand what you two are arguing about, this has kinda gotten pointless. But I do agree with Gen1T, its simple physics. Theres even a (honda) racecar driver that has a setup that utilizes both the short ram and full length intake (CAI), the CAI for the low end hp/tq, and then it switches over to the short ram for high end power.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,052
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
Originally posted by Gen1GT
Firstly, I'm not defending CAI. I'm all about high rpm power. I prefer the short ram. Unfortunately, my car has an AFM, so there aren't even any intakes made for my car, so I'm going to have to get a stand alone ECU and a MAP sensor. Just because my car only runs 16 now, has nothing to do with how much information or knowledge I have. What do stock Type SHs run? mid 15s? My car is going to be doing 14s in the spring..all motor. And for your information, my car also has variable length intake runners(plenums), as well as an intake resonator. Seems Mazda knows how to build engines too.
And oh...since you know so much about cars and Hondas, you would know that the 2.4 CR-V engine has exactly 1 lb/ft more torque than your H22A
Monkey..they didn't turbo the Renesis because they changed the location of the exhaust ports to the side housing, which turns out to make for extremely cool exhaust temperatures....not good for turbo, but since they brought it back...anything is possible.
ludeboom, I'm not trying to start some war here. What I'm saying about intakes is a fact. You can experiment if you'd like. Try a CAI vs SR if you'd like. Dyno and track test both. I'll bet the short ram wins..........
Firstly, I'm not defending CAI. I'm all about high rpm power. I prefer the short ram. Unfortunately, my car has an AFM, so there aren't even any intakes made for my car, so I'm going to have to get a stand alone ECU and a MAP sensor. Just because my car only runs 16 now, has nothing to do with how much information or knowledge I have. What do stock Type SHs run? mid 15s? My car is going to be doing 14s in the spring..all motor. And for your information, my car also has variable length intake runners(plenums), as well as an intake resonator. Seems Mazda knows how to build engines too.
And oh...since you know so much about cars and Hondas, you would know that the 2.4 CR-V engine has exactly 1 lb/ft more torque than your H22A
Monkey..they didn't turbo the Renesis because they changed the location of the exhaust ports to the side housing, which turns out to make for extremely cool exhaust temperatures....not good for turbo, but since they brought it back...anything is possible.
ludeboom, I'm not trying to start some war here. What I'm saying about intakes is a fact. You can experiment if you'd like. Try a CAI vs SR if you'd like. Dyno and track test both. I'll bet the short ram wins..........
ill be genuinely impressed if your protege is in the 14's come spring, honestly i dont think its gonna happen NA.
and
as far as the you trying to prove me wrong on the CRV thing:
yes i do know alot more than you about building motors, did you build your protege motor?
im glad that you can go to carpoint or some other internet site and post some specs that you looked up.
unlike you i speak from experience
btw this is nowhere near a war
~boom
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Joined: Jan 2004
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It's all good....when I'm done BUILDING my ENGINE(motors are electric), I'll have to make sure and post my dyno charts, and drag slips. The first thing people do with the BP motor is turbo it(it was designed to take compression ie, oil returns lines already there, piston squirters etc)...so it's my personal challenge to make the fastest all motor Protege on the continent. I guess we'll see if I have the capability to do it won't we......
Senior Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,052
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From: Long Island, NY
yea we definitely will
you know ive driven a sizeable amount of mazda's, all of which were in showroom quality form.
and i have to say, most of them are absolute boats (the minivan has better handling)
if u had to pick a car company to back against me, mazda is a mistake.
i got to drive more mazdas than youve seen in one place...at the NYC mazda rev it up tour (still got the orange bracelet
)
drove the miata, the new 6, the millenia, the minivan (its ballsy too).
i had 2 time trials on a small technical course with the new mazda 6, both cars i drove sported one finger's worth of miles on em.
they all had sometype of factory prototype exhaust on em too, so they made a little noise
by the end of the second time trial i had sucessfully broken the shifter, pretty funny).
the 6 is comfortable and has OK pickup for a 4 door, (new accord would murder it)
it was a fun experience, but on the way to my prelude in the belmont racetrack parking lot, i was immediately glad to see my honda, and to be honest with you...my worn strut, 92 prelude with some dings in the paint was worth more and handled 100% better than a brand new mazda of any kind.
its faster too
if i won an rx8 i would sell it to some poor fool, not drive it
btw i test drove an rx8 at the dealer, but it wasnt on sale over the summer so i had to wait to beat on it.
~boom
you know ive driven a sizeable amount of mazda's, all of which were in showroom quality form.
and i have to say, most of them are absolute boats (the minivan has better handling)
if u had to pick a car company to back against me, mazda is a mistake.
i got to drive more mazdas than youve seen in one place...at the NYC mazda rev it up tour (still got the orange bracelet
)drove the miata, the new 6, the millenia, the minivan (its ballsy too).
i had 2 time trials on a small technical course with the new mazda 6, both cars i drove sported one finger's worth of miles on em.
they all had sometype of factory prototype exhaust on em too, so they made a little noise
by the end of the second time trial i had sucessfully broken the shifter, pretty funny).
the 6 is comfortable and has OK pickup for a 4 door, (new accord would murder it)
it was a fun experience, but on the way to my prelude in the belmont racetrack parking lot, i was immediately glad to see my honda, and to be honest with you...my worn strut, 92 prelude with some dings in the paint was worth more and handled 100% better than a brand new mazda of any kind.
its faster too
if i won an rx8 i would sell it to some poor fool, not drive it
btw i test drove an rx8 at the dealer, but it wasnt on sale over the summer so i had to wait to beat on it.
~boom
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Why did you even have to throw that crap in there? The Accord may be faster in the straight line, but the 6 is the best handling family sedan out there...hands down.
As with your Prelude, it WAS the best handling front driver out there....until the MP3 and Mazdaspeed Protege came along. Best handling front drivers EVER made. Set factory slalom records. People drive different cars for different reasons. I couldn't tell you all the problems a co-worker of mine is having with his brand spanking Civic Si. He's had electrical and mechanical problems, been stuck on the side of the highway a few times, and has so many problems starting, he had to buy a portable booster pack. It's only 8 months old and he's selling it already to buy a 93 coupe.
Honda makes good reliable cars, with good gas milage. It's too bad they've forgotten their roots, and have no more good, light, cheap, fun to drive cars. Mazda has taken over in that regard, as the Mazdaspeed walks all over the Si, and the new 3 is hands down the best small car on the continent. I'm done arguing with your about apples and oranges, and matters of subjectivity.
Go do some research and take some physics classes. Great, you're good with your hands, and you can put things together(so do those old guys who work on big block chevys), but it doesn't mean you know the physics. I'll be back when I have my timeslips....
As with your Prelude, it WAS the best handling front driver out there....until the MP3 and Mazdaspeed Protege came along. Best handling front drivers EVER made. Set factory slalom records. People drive different cars for different reasons. I couldn't tell you all the problems a co-worker of mine is having with his brand spanking Civic Si. He's had electrical and mechanical problems, been stuck on the side of the highway a few times, and has so many problems starting, he had to buy a portable booster pack. It's only 8 months old and he's selling it already to buy a 93 coupe.
Honda makes good reliable cars, with good gas milage. It's too bad they've forgotten their roots, and have no more good, light, cheap, fun to drive cars. Mazda has taken over in that regard, as the Mazdaspeed walks all over the Si, and the new 3 is hands down the best small car on the continent. I'm done arguing with your about apples and oranges, and matters of subjectivity.
Go do some research and take some physics classes. Great, you're good with your hands, and you can put things together(so do those old guys who work on big block chevys), but it doesn't mean you know the physics. I'll be back when I have my timeslips....