Do the NSX beat the Corvette??
A little chin music
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,655
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From: Cleveland, Ohio - Rock 'n Roll capitol of the World
Originally posted by 90TGP
Domestic companys aren't that far behind. Over head cam motors aren't new. And VVT technology was used on airplanes in WWII. Also, Ford had the first patent on VVT back in 76-77, and Toyota one year later. Honda was only the first company to use it in a production vehicle, NSX.
If I remember correctly, the CRX Si was the first Honda to get fuel injection back in the late 80s. Chevrolet had fuel injected Corvettes since the 60s.
If you can remember an old motor called the Chrysler Slant-6 [6 cylinder] from the 60s and 70s, it got 35mpg back in the 70s.
1920's Ford Model T with 16V DOHC

http://members.tripod.com/~juan_espero/fronty2.gif
A lot of the "technology" used in a lot of Japanese imports were originally American or European designs. They just took the research farther and refined it.
Sure, OHC motors are great for gas milage. But ANY motor will be reliable if you TAKE CARE of it. I bet if you took a B16 motor and never changed the oil, never changed the transmission fluid, never changed the air filter, and just let the motor go with no maintance, it would die just like everyother motor out there. Well except the Slant-6, that motor can take anything you dish out on it [it's known as the only Indestructable motor ever made].
As Carrol Shelby said: Cheap, Light, Durable. Pick two because you can't have all three.
Domestic companys aren't that far behind. Over head cam motors aren't new. And VVT technology was used on airplanes in WWII. Also, Ford had the first patent on VVT back in 76-77, and Toyota one year later. Honda was only the first company to use it in a production vehicle, NSX.
If I remember correctly, the CRX Si was the first Honda to get fuel injection back in the late 80s. Chevrolet had fuel injected Corvettes since the 60s.
If you can remember an old motor called the Chrysler Slant-6 [6 cylinder] from the 60s and 70s, it got 35mpg back in the 70s.
1920's Ford Model T with 16V DOHC

http://members.tripod.com/~juan_espero/fronty2.gif
A lot of the "technology" used in a lot of Japanese imports were originally American or European designs. They just took the research farther and refined it.
Sure, OHC motors are great for gas milage. But ANY motor will be reliable if you TAKE CARE of it. I bet if you took a B16 motor and never changed the oil, never changed the transmission fluid, never changed the air filter, and just let the motor go with no maintance, it would die just like everyother motor out there. Well except the Slant-6, that motor can take anything you dish out on it [it's known as the only Indestructable motor ever made].
As Carrol Shelby said: Cheap, Light, Durable. Pick two because you can't have all three.
Please tell me what is so God like about VVT?
You get an extra cam which changes the intake and exhaust valve timing after reaching a certain rpm. Everyone doesn't want to floor their car all the time just to get some power from their motor during daily driving. That's why GM still uses OHV motors. It's cheap to mass produce and it's proven through time that it's reliable and gives power through the whole power band, just not at the peak like VTEC does.
Just expressing my opinion, but I'd rather have a simple pushrod motor that delivers power throughout the whole power band instead of an OHC motor giving power at the top [But I wouldn't turn down a LT5, 2JZGET, RB26DETT, 4G63, SR20DET, B18C5 motor(s).]
You get an extra cam which changes the intake and exhaust valve timing after reaching a certain rpm. Everyone doesn't want to floor their car all the time just to get some power from their motor during daily driving. That's why GM still uses OHV motors. It's cheap to mass produce and it's proven through time that it's reliable and gives power through the whole power band, just not at the peak like VTEC does.
Just expressing my opinion, but I'd rather have a simple pushrod motor that delivers power throughout the whole power band instead of an OHC motor giving power at the top [But I wouldn't turn down a LT5, 2JZGET, RB26DETT, 4G63, SR20DET, B18C5 motor(s).]
A little chin music
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,655
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland, Ohio - Rock 'n Roll capitol of the World
Originally posted by 90TGP
Please tell me what is so God like about VVT?
You get an extra cam which changes the intake and exhaust valve timing after reaching a certain rpm. Everyone doesn't want to floor their car all the time just to get some power from their motor during daily driving. That's why GM still uses OHV motors. It's cheap to mass produce and it's proven through time that it's reliable and gives power through the whole power band, just not at the peak like VTEC does.
Just expressing my opinion, but I'd rather have a simple pushrod motor that delivers power throughout the whole power band instead of an OHC motor giving power at the top [But I wouldn't turn down a LT5, 2JZGET, RB26DETT, 4G63, SR20DET, B18C5 motor(s).]
Please tell me what is so God like about VVT?
You get an extra cam which changes the intake and exhaust valve timing after reaching a certain rpm. Everyone doesn't want to floor their car all the time just to get some power from their motor during daily driving. That's why GM still uses OHV motors. It's cheap to mass produce and it's proven through time that it's reliable and gives power through the whole power band, just not at the peak like VTEC does.
Just expressing my opinion, but I'd rather have a simple pushrod motor that delivers power throughout the whole power band instead of an OHC motor giving power at the top [But I wouldn't turn down a LT5, 2JZGET, RB26DETT, 4G63, SR20DET, B18C5 motor(s).]
Originally posted by 90TGP
Designed by GM and Lotus.
Designed by GM and Lotus.
But everything else was Lotus Engineering in the U.K. GM bought Lotus in '86, and immediately used them to revitalize/revamp several of their projects - including the Corvette. They gave the mandate, and Lotus went to work. The LT5 would not have been possible if not for Lotus' innovative design: DOHC instead of pushrods, aluminum instead of cast iron, pent roof combustion chambers, etc. etc. etc.
I read that Lotus themselves rated the LT5 at well over 400+ hp, but had to detune it for American specs. Also, the thing that finally killed it was GM's ability to up the rating on the pushrod engine to above 300hp in their experiments of the early/ mid-90s, and their insistance at installing the ZR-1 "squared taillamps" on the base model 'Vette - to the fury of ZR-1 owners, who felt that the little badges weren't enough, they wanted a car that not only performed different than the base mode, but looked different too.
Sadly, Lotus is now wholly owned by an Indonesian company, making this kind of project unlikely to occur ever again - the cost of consultation would be too high. Too bad, too...
Originally posted by joecooool
The NSX is only faster than the automatic Corvette with the stock axle. All 6 speed Corvettes are faster than the NSX as well as the automatic with the "performance axle".
The Z06 is significantly faster and will also outhandle the NSX.
I know, I'm an SCCA auto crosser and I had an NSX. My Z06 on the same tracks is about 3 to 4 seconds faster per lap.
The NSX is only faster than the automatic Corvette with the stock axle. All 6 speed Corvettes are faster than the NSX as well as the automatic with the "performance axle".
The Z06 is significantly faster and will also outhandle the NSX.
I know, I'm an SCCA auto crosser and I had an NSX. My Z06 on the same tracks is about 3 to 4 seconds faster per lap.
the nsx wasn't meant to compete w/ american muscle anyways...it's meant to be an exotic (better reliability tho). it's hp and torque curves more closely resemble ferrari and such...i believe its similar in performance to a ferrari 355 all around (cept more reliable, like i said).
Originally posted by RB26DETT
owning an NSX is a lot more impressive than owning a Z06
thatz how i decide wuh cars i want =P
owning an NSX is a lot more impressive than owning a Z06
thatz how i decide wuh cars i want =P
Sadly, you are in the majority. Most younger people do buy cars because they are viewed as 'more impressive' by the idiots they are trying to impress, without regard to actual performance. Notice the import trend of the last 5 years. It's rare to find people who buy a honda for the good gas milage, good reliability, decent factory power, and high resale value. Usually it's cause 'you can put NAAAWS on it and run 10's, dude!' or 'it has VTEC so it's way faster than some stupid V8'.
Originally posted by yellow civic ex
the nsx wasn't meant to compete w/ american muscle anyways...it's meant to be an exotic (better reliability tho). it's hp and torque curves more closely resemble ferrari and such...i believe its similar in performance to a ferrari 355 all around (cept more reliable, like i said).
the nsx wasn't meant to compete w/ american muscle anyways...it's meant to be an exotic (better reliability tho). it's hp and torque curves more closely resemble ferrari and such...i believe its similar in performance to a ferrari 355 all around (cept more reliable, like i said).
Originally posted by fastball
Try reving the old LS1 or LT1 to redline in every gear (about 6k at most), then when you're cruising, try downshifting to third at 90 mph. Then watch as your (terribly outdated) valve rods shoot throught the block, through the hood, and off to the side of the road. Now, do the same with an NSX and you will be rewarded with the most beautiful sounds and power rush you've ever had. There's something about reving to 7500 so smooth and sweet that just beats the tar out of the loud, low, and ugly grumble of low reving push rods.
Try reving the old LS1 or LT1 to redline in every gear (about 6k at most), then when you're cruising, try downshifting to third at 90 mph. Then watch as your (terribly outdated) valve rods shoot throught the block, through the hood, and off to the side of the road. Now, do the same with an NSX and you will be rewarded with the most beautiful sounds and power rush you've ever had. There's something about reving to 7500 so smooth and sweet that just beats the tar out of the loud, low, and ugly grumble of low reving push rods.
My third gear is good to right about 105. Idiot. So why would a downshift to 3rd at 90 MPH make my 'valve rods' shoot through the block?
Originally posted by fastball
So I guess the moral of the story is for the most bang for the buck, keep with a 60 year old engine design.
So I guess the moral of the story is for the most bang for the buck, keep with a 60 year old engine design.
Next time, before you start spewing bullshit about things you know absolutely nothing about, maybe some research would be warranted. Try here.
http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html
Originally posted by fastball
The rest of the world is getting same performance with half the displacement, twice the fuel economy, and 3 times the reliability. That's engineering.
The rest of the world is getting same performance with half the displacement, twice the fuel economy, and 3 times the reliability. That's engineering.
Same performance??
Z06 - 405 Hp/400 Tq
NSX - 290 Hp/224 Tq
Twice the fuel economy????
Z06 - 19 cty/28 hwy
NSX - 17 cty/24 hwy
We'll have to see about the three times the reliability thing.... but my guess is you're a brain dead rertard and will be wrong there, too.


