i cannot find a site showing 5-6 completely different design concepts to be creditable. most of which have been floating around the internet for a year.

 

Oh yeah Toyota really needs a high performance pure sports car soon.

 

this was my response to some honda lovers who were not as kind and loving as you.. but is aslo info for you good people. You only recognize what you want.... of course they will sell cars, but what exact strategy will be used as far as competiotion for toyotas new vision.. Toyota is lauching its new car company and it looks to take over the role of the present toyota ... while the traditional toyota will step up and claim the thrown of a new luxury/performance breed, and cross the line into exotic.... you pompus azzez and as far you the other person goes.. I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny or if you just misunderstood me...... HOwever this is the last time i'm going to explain this..

Toyota is planning to launch a low end supra to compete with the 350z and the mazda 8..... however it will be available in two powerplants a V6, and V8 28,000-35,000.... Then toyota will lauch its supercar the 4000GT which is planned to pack a 10cyl and crank 450-500hp and will market at about 120,000 to compete with the new mercedes exotic, ferrari spyder,ext. the supercar will in a scence be a top line supra... both will have simular styling.

The V6 engine will come from the new Lexus IS 430 ( toyota alteeza) toyota had decided to kill the inline 6.. and the supercar will use a 10cyl that steams from the new LS500 to be in showrooms this summer.......... the IS 430, and LS500 can be viewed on http://www.lexus.com and the other info was the result of lots of research...

Now to adress other issues.. .. .. .. .. I asked what is honda going to do now?
how will the react to toyota's extention into a new catagory?, and the new line of cars, under the fresh new badge.... And will there be a new RL to stack up to the LS500? . . . . . Now before i recieve any more off the wall responses please research and give me real feed back. not just obsurb nonsence. . .

Other things Toyota will hurt its sells of the already slow SC430 sells after the release of a new supra.... also the new GS series is recieveing a face lift, and hp increase. . . The new GS will be quicker and more nimble than the SC430, which means that there will have to be a change to the lineup. I believe ( not fact as other things i have stated) that the new low end supra will double as a SC430 and simply make use of a convertable hard top, and lexus badge.

Much the same way as the toyota camry and ES300 have always been.. only the Lexus has a few more horses and maybe a bit more safty, them a beter grade leather.. but its the same car!

And much as the Toyota Avalon resembles a GS series lexus. . . there are only horsepower differences between the to frames... even though a lexus sales man will say that the Avalon is a ES 300.. actually the frame work is shared!!! but the panels are GS, and the headlamp fixtures have simply been cramed rather than four separate lights.... of course the cabin will differ slightly...

and my personal thought the origonal IS300 was a corolla frame with the GS300 powerplant. . . oh and the new IS will be a convertable hardtop ( optional) and the Celica will recieve a hp boost and more traditional styling...... in coming years... toyota usually reserves severe changes for complete remodeling... and that is done every 5 years. . .

The point was that you should expect the supra low end models to cover the slack of the SC430, and high end to make the NSX sweat bullets... now I am open to serious feedback only.. others will be ignored!

The point is that the supra will probably double as the above examples

 

And how the **** do you know that? Is there a reliable source to confirm that?

Really, V6 from IS430? Somehow I believe 430 is toyota's 4.3L V8 engine

Why don't you do everyone a favor and do some research yourself instead of being an asshole. Just look at the sales number for LS and GS430 - they barely sell. Not to put either car down, I love them both, in fact I believe LS430 to be the best luxury sedan, but it's a very narrow market, and LS500 will sell even less than LS430. I do not think honda cares about that market all that much, there's a lot more sales in middle class cars.

SC430 and Supra won't compete, SC430 is more like caddy eldorado competitor, soft, heavy with too much wood trim, etc. Even if they will share the platform, they are aiming for different markets. In addition, SC430 carries a 60k pricetag, while Supra should be below 30.

Last time I checked Avalon was FWD V6 and GS was RWD I6 or V8. Wtf are you smoking?

You're on some serious crack....



Well, considering that you are very missinformed, your point is wrong. Supra will not share market with SC, and high end Supra is nothing but speculation.

 

you are correct... The IS430 will be a V8 but the V6 from the existing IS300 will be used in the new car... thankyou for bringing this to my attention... i was somewhat angered buy the responses on the other thread, they weren't as carring as you, and the brain thinks faster than the hands can transfer . .

As far as the sales numbers the GS series is actually doing well the GS300 made good numbers all years since 1998, the 400 and 430 only suffer a bit but that is because of the big price difference with little to show for it... Oh and I did research thankyou

you didnt comment about toyotas new line of cars.. they will luanch this summer in the west coast and later this year for the rest of the U.S ( assuming your in U.S)

yes honda would be concerned about that because....
1. Honda now attracts a younger crowd than present toyota
and the new line targets this crowd..

2. the new line will have very competitive pricing...

3. I've heard nothing from honda as far a a reaction to the new line


OChDX <--- you said it yourself... the SC430 is 60k the supra will be 30k the lesser amount is more for your buck, and the performance is equal/better and the frame is shared.. even if they target different markets the concept is the same performance / luxury the supra will offer leather, cd, etc.. so why wouldnt it be competition? if i sold a box of ice creamwith carmel swirls in it for $5 and a box with a tiny bit less caramel swirl for $3 both are made by the same creamery, but the more expensive is called premium which would you buy? depends on how much caramel you want right? but if money was a concern to hell with the extra caramel right? exactly....

OChDX <--- you said that the Avalon is FWD correct.. and the avalon is v6 but toyota is ridding itself of the I6 and converting to the V the I6 gave more balanced weight distribution, and of course if one box of ice cream hase 6 nuts in it, and one has 8 nuts, but they are the same container and ingredients what difference dose it make if i push or pull it off the self ? they are still bassically the same one just has more NUTS why have they ruled out I6 -> I dont know <-

It was my personal opinion being that I am a Fine Arts Major that the corolla frame was game for the IS panels. and the IS300 does indeed sport the I6 that the 1998- i think about 2001 GS300 holds... if the corolla frame holds Rav 4 then why cant it hold IS?

The next generation celica will recieve a hp upgrade meaning more hp... whats so hard to believe about that?

Hummmmmmm the high end supra will come but maybe not soon.. it is to quench the thirst of the die hard supra fan... the ones who love performance and love toyota.. and if benz is making an exotic now, why shouldn't toyota match it, if BMW has damn near exotic cars? and they may not even turn out very many probable only 50-100 per year so why do you see somthing wrong with that...... You angry person you


I did however enjoy your feedback you were more organized in your approach .. next time arrange a thesis statement, and then attack you'll be closser to accomplishing your goal. oh and please feel free to search for the new Toyota badge i believe its Sicon . . there are only two models so far.. oh and TRD is now making drop in engines for their models now i think called kuzumo .. very simular to the B engines honda has.

hummm you must not just say you are wrong and then its so.... you have to prove your thesis statement... but you didnt have one

Thesis statement
body
reason
reaserch
restate thesis
conclusion
closing statement


but unless your a sick sick person you wont do that

everyone keepem comin!

 

first line typo's above.. the V6 for the new IS will be put into the supra. not the V6 from the present IS... they dont have them yet....
http://www.lexus.com
http://www.toyota.com

 

First of all IS300 is I6, not V6, and a few paragraphs below you are saying toyota is getting rid of the I6. So make a decision, they getting rid of it or using it in a different car?

Actually, GS430 runs 0-60 in under 6 seconds, while GS300 does it in mid 8 seconds. There is quite a bit to show for the price difference between them. And while GS300 sells well, its a competitor to TL, and I think TL competes very well.

Who cares about Toyotas new line of cars, Scion line are cheap econoboxes like Honda Fit, they won't sell in the US.

Honda shouldn't be concerned, maybe kia and daewoo should be.

Dude, do you realize they are targeted for completely different markets? Platform and engine sharing doesn't mean shit, for example Toyota Tacoma and Lexus LX470, do they compete with each other? Lets try an even closer example, Camry and ES300, absolutely the same car bar wood trim and leather, and still not much competition between them.

The SC430 is targeted toward rich florida old farts. Its soft, heavy, quiet, expensive and carries lexus logo (prestige). Supra is lighter, very stiff, very loud and is targeted towards young buyers.


Ok, and you still not answering my question about your previous post - how the **** is avalong the same as GS?

Because IS is RWD, I6 and corolla is FWD I4.

I didn't say anything about celica, I don't think anyone cares about Celica anyways, its too fugly.


Maybe soon, maybe not soon, maybe not. Supercars are an ego think, they don't turn in profit, rather give bragging right. Toyota has shitload of extra cash and is able to afford it, so they probably will come out with one sometime in the future.


You're on some serious crack dude, no doubt about it.

 

Few people have made themselves out to be an ass in as few posts as "ray_raymond_ray"

 

"Ah jus need mo' money, sir!!"

I'll figure out how to pay for the motorwork...someday.

Gotta quell the Poseidon Adventure bodyroll first.

 

hummm. . . You people are close minded, there is no point in arguing with fools, eventually the persons become so ingauged in their arguiment that the origonal fool is lost, because both participants now wear a dunce cap.

So you more than likely will call me the fool, because you're close minded. but either way the arguing must stop.. any person bent on disproving something so much that they target a persons every typo, and grasp every tiny misunderstanding and misconception has nothing beter to do with their time.

listen to me and my words carfully . . . in most of the attempts to disprove me the misconception or your end was clearly stated in the qoutes you attempted to use in order to make yourself look better.

The IS currently uses a I6 we agree here. . . . next i stated that the "new IS" will use a V6, and V8.. What is so hard about that. I sad that the new car would use the IS V6 and since that engine is already being droped into the new frames at the assembly plant then that makes it current! I never switched anything! ! you are simply so tangled in your attempt to disprove me that you are discrediting yourself.

next order of business. The GS300 and 400. the GS400 actually in 1998 ran 0-60 in 5.7 the GS 300 was not 8secs. it was around 7 the only difference between the cars was HP.... but what is HP if the power is not transfered to the wheels via a great transmission. the drive trains for the cars were identical. both electronically limited to 149mph so the only difference was that the GS 400 now 430 accelerates just a bit quicker than the V6. So the end result is that the cars are equal after a quarter mile or more... So why would someone pay 10-15,000 more for a quarter mile of acceleration, when they more than likely live in a city with plenty of stop lights, and turns, and will never get to experience the trill in the first place. So yes the 300 sold more because the 400 did not offer more for the money as far as the ratio between dollar and performance... The 300 was a better buy which explains the reason that you see more GS300's than 400 series on the road.

Scion remark --

well i believe that all japanese entry level models may be refered to as economy cars. and yes the are economical. As far as honda everything from the Accord down is economic, and toyota everything from the Camry down. The emergence of a new line of toyota economy cars is evidence that there are plans to bump up the origonal line a notch. What sense would there be to offer two economical cars under different name plates ( badges) there would be none. you would simply be dividing your money between your left and righ hands. ( such as GM ) No the reason is that this new line will eventuall subsitute the present econoline and the present line may then upgrade ans there are no sells lost. because the left hand kept economic, while the right hand went to get money from elsewhere.

No should Honda be concerned. . . Yes because as i have stated I have seen nothing evident of a counter action. ( for every action there is equal but opposite reaction) If toyat makes a move honda makes one, if honda then toyota. However you'all seem to facinated with prooving somthing wrong which cannot be prooven wrong in order to realize that I am simply makeing anteresting stimulating conversation and nothing more. This site was made for that purpose. and you people are bent on distroying that very thing which makes honda-acura.net. . . If honda dose not react then there must be a reason and of course there is an answer of which none of you have stated. either they have already begun to react, and have concealed this. Or they have plans to outthink toyota and take the crown.

the two companies have a long history. before WWII toyota at the time (Toyoda textile) had been experimenting with auto's after branching from they're origonal textile foundation. during the war most of the assembly plant was distroyed, MR honda actually developed his interest in the automobile after achieveing the prestige of being labeled as amoung the worlds best motorcyle manufacturers ( explaining Hondas connection to performance, and sport in present auto line.) He actually worked with and for toyota during their time of re establishment. He then advanced and bettered the technology of the existing Japanesse automaker and employed it into his own car, which was comemorated with the S2000. since then Honda has bassicallly waited on toyota to move first and then top toyotas move by improving what has already been done.

ok the Supra and the SC well i will have to explain this very carfully as to not allow any more room for misconception... Yes the top target different crowds. but so do honda and toyota. yet they are competitors. honda's prime buyer is 18-30 while toyota until present has targeted 25-40 there is a small area in which the two markets lapse. this is where the competition occurs. usually the (family) sedans, suvs, and van. the Supra and SC are no different yet the conflict occurs within the same manufacturer. supra targets 20- early 40 while SC targets 25-30up using sophistication as a reason for older buyers to choose this performance car. the to aim for simular things, but at different people. the SC perhapes a more mature, and well off person. and the supra young and full of energy but not so well off. ( being that the new supra will be 25-35,000) ( not the exotic which will be 100,000 plus) however there may be those of higher class and of actual possible market that would opt for the supra becuase it achieves the same objective, and cost less, is a performance piece, and would pshycologically give them a feel of rejuvenation, and youthfullness. Further more the buyer wouldn't mis out on much luxury. being that toyota is based on luxury, and not so much on performance as honda. the new supra will of course offer all the creature comforts that the Sc could offer maybe minus a navigation screen. but so what I'd sure buy the supra without even thinking twice... So how could there be no competition, i never meant it in a way that would suggest that the two would actually compete ..... thats nonscence. I MEANT THAT THE SUPRA HAS GREAT POTENTIAL TO SWAY WOULD BE BUYERS OF THE SC SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE REASONS I HAVE JUST STATED, not to mention that the new supra would be more of a prestige peice than the SC beacuse this will be the first new model supra on american soil since 1998. And the point of buying lexes is because of the sence of " I have this and you don't " because you must be special and privialaged to ahve this" which will be reality with the new supra.. because it will be a anticipated and well wanted token item which will snatch attention from many markets not just the SC alone when the supra comes, and say a 20 year old guy has saved up 30,000 and is trying to choose what car he wants to buy from the toyota lineup and he is seriously thinking about a MR spyder but ... whamm the supra pops up and is nearly the same price are you telling me he wouldn't get the Supra... The current model spyder might flop..... I haven;t even realized that until this very momnet... the supra would crush the sells of the spyder unless the spyder drops price drastically. they would almost have to give them away! so there now no SC sells and no spyder cells because of supra.. which is probably been the reason that the release has been prolonged for such a time, and the release of scion...... would alow lower pricing and also allow toyota to notch itself up the hyerartic scale, and perhapes phase out the spyder and replace in with the supra, and bring the spyder to scion, whil given time to increase the super, which would result in the supercar, and after toyota a=has statigically collected every dime from the low end supra, and all the drooling has ended the spyder will more than likly reserface, and the supercar will appear creating a high interest in the higher end supra, and regaining the spyder name and sells...


Again thank you.... please realize that I am not just some ass as you state but a very knowledgeable person, I may get engines and release dates confussed, but what facts i have are straight. and what I hypothisize has merit. because I rely on my studies to provide me with the most well thought and collective response or statement possible, i attempted to loosen myself in order to speak with you in a fashion that would allow me to relate with you.. but I see i must speak with you as an instructor to a pupil