I was talking about people like Cat Stevens. Ted Kennedy once they figured out that he was who he is was allowed to fly. I think the inconvience was ok

Mike, these overall sweeps may be necessary to make sure no-one slips through the cracks. I'd rather people be inconvienced thank you.

 

When he got on he was not on US soil, thus we did not have jurisdiction to keep him off the plane. Once it hit US airspace though we took over.

 

exactly Tom

 

You guys enjoying your circle jerk over there?

Really I have nothing more to say on the matter, I've put my point out there and you guys are just repeating yourselves.

 

Well you made the comment that you would like the same level of effectiveness in getting actual terrorists. I asked a question on how you would root out the terrorists from everyday people without using profiling.

 

Who was the "leader" of the group of terrorists that carried out the 9/11 plans? I forget his name, but either way. He received his green card after 9/11.

Plans in place for our safety? The freakin' terrorist got a damn green card, after his name was plastered all over the news, and had died.

As for this list, if a celebrity like Cat Stevens is on there, as well as Ted Kennedy, I gotta say, there is a breakdown in checking on this list. It outta be looked into.

I absolutely love how people are saying "so what if some people are inconvienced," blah blah blah.

I'd hate to break it to you life isn't so black and white, there's a lot of grey in the world. I for one think it's BS that if I wasn't a United States citizen and I got pulled over for a minor traffic violation, I may end up going to jail cause I didn't have my paperwork on me proving I was a citizen. It's not like people won't abuse the system.

The best way to protect ourselves from terrorism is to fight terrorism in every country, and work together was a single force. This list, how effective is it? I'm just wondering, how do we know it's catching terrorists?

 

That is right it is not black and white. That is why there will be kinks in the system. That is why Cat Stevens is on the list. It is not proven whether or not he knowingly gave money to Hamas. If he did he deserves to be on there. Better safe than sorry. You may not be able to prove it is catching terrorists but you sure as hell cannot prove it is not catching terrorists. Show me how many attacks we have had on our own soil since 9/11. Case in Point.

 

So when you see kinks, you're not suppose to iron them out?

Isn't it innocent until proven guilty? By the same logic I could end up the list cause I know people who are muslim. You do know at airports you are filtered through different check points depending on your last name. If your name is Muhammed you'll be seeing a different level of security, then Mr. Smith will. See having to deal with going through more security that's one thing, having to prove you're a United States citizen when you get pulled for a broken taillight, yeah not fair in my book. That means because I know a Mr. Muhammed who is muslim, I may get on this list. Okay yeah, that's fair
And better safe than sorry? Jeez man, do you choose not to see the other side of the picture? I'd sure as hell love to see how you'd react if any of your civil liberties are lost.

You know what, if something is taking away the rights of the people, it sure as hell better be able to prove it's effective. I'm surprised you are so accepting of laws that take away civil liberties. Reading your reply, you've said, yeah take away my civil liberties "better safe then sorry", and even if they don't prove to be effective, I'm still cool with that.

You need to take a step back and look at the whole picture.

 

If you read all my posts, I said in one previosly that kinks like this can be fixed. They should be but you can't expect things to be done over night. I would rather us error on the catious side than not.

OK, lets have people attack us again like 9/11. Then they can be guilty. Would you like that

First off you are dead wrong about how you are split up depending on your last name. The checks are random except if there are more than 2 arab men due to be checked. If more than two come up, the extras have to be taken off the list and cannot be checked. I think that is bs but whatever.

Secondly now you are saying people are being put on the list just because of their last name. That is not entirely correct. There are many factors that people are put onto the list and many of which are not knwn to the public.

I see the other side of the picture. I do not agree with that side. I would rather have some civil liberties violated than having thousands of people dying. I have been checked before getting on a plane before. Wow that was a violation of my civil liberities Give me a ****ing break. The system is not perfect right now but what system is? It is working for us and the longer it is in place the better it will get.

I have looked at the whole picture. Have we been attacked since we have implemented this? No! Have other countries? ie Russia. They sure were.You are acting like this is the red scare all over again. Why don't you look at the whole picture and realize that if you want safety you have to give up something.

Here maybe you will understand this. You may want to leave your windows in your car open when you park it. If you do that you leave it open for risk of being stolen more so than if they were closed. Can you leave them open? Sure. Are you at more risk. Definetly. Closing them will make your car safer when you leave. Is it an inconvience to you if you want to leave your car for a few minutes and then get back in and drive off and not have to worry about opening the windows again. Sure. (If you can't understand the analogy, the car is america, and the windows being down is not having security, whereas the windows up is the security that we have now)

 

No, because they test flew all of the people who were on the planes.

The same will happen now. They have the money and human resources to check and see who can fly and who can't.


The random system is enough, because it tells them that even though they've flown a particular person on a particular flight 3 times without checks, it doesn't mean they won't be subjected to extra scrutiny that 4th time. The no-fly list of names will just give them more confidence in those who aren't on the list.