Cat Stevens to be deported
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From: Ossining, New York
Originally Posted by MrFatbooty
It's not hard to grasp, it's just stupid. Justifying the mistakes because the overall system is a good idea is not any sort of worthwhile response to calls to refine the system.
No one is saying to scrap the system. We're saying to make it better. But I guess it's just better to sit on our asses and spend money to keep track of people that don't need to be kept track of, not to mention violating their fourth amendment rights due to a kink in the system.
No one is saying to scrap the system. We're saying to make it better. But I guess it's just better to sit on our asses and spend money to keep track of people that don't need to be kept track of, not to mention violating their fourth amendment rights due to a kink in the system.
Mike, if these people are not US citizens, why do we need to even worry about their 4th Ammendment rights?
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From: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by MrFatbooty
Because of this, I am skeptical when someone who is a known left-winger peace activist type that also happens to be a well known muslim, ends up on the same list.
You can be skeptical all you want, your entitled to that; it doesn't mean he didn't give them money though, and to me the fact that he may have - the fact that there is some proof that he *did*, is enough for me to want him deported.
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Originally Posted by BonzoAPD
Mike, if these people are not US citizens, why do we need to even worry about their 4th Ammendment rights?
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From: Ossining, New York
Originally Posted by MrFatbooty
That's not what I'm saying at all but it seems like this thread has turned into the trying to disagree with me festival, so perhaps I should elaborate or rather elucidate on the original point.
The no-fly list is singling out people who for whatever reason shouldn't be on it. Case in point: Ted Kennedy. Senator, Ted Kennedy. He ended up on the no-fly list because of a mistake. There are plenty of normal every day business travelers who have gotten stuck on the list too.
Because of this, I am skeptical when someone who is a known left-winger peace activist type that also happens to be a well known muslim, ends up on the same list.
The no-fly list is singling out people who for whatever reason shouldn't be on it. Case in point: Ted Kennedy. Senator, Ted Kennedy. He ended up on the no-fly list because of a mistake. There are plenty of normal every day business travelers who have gotten stuck on the list too.
Because of this, I am skeptical when someone who is a known left-winger peace activist type that also happens to be a well known muslim, ends up on the same list.
Mike in those cases, once it is known that they are on there by mistake, they will be taken off. What is the harm in that? I will say it again, I'd rather the system error this way than the other way.
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The list is stupid because like I said its got a name and a yes/no. If they really want a list then they should have more information. So if someone on that list has the name John Smith then I guess we should find every John Smith and kill them or throw them out in the hope that its the right John Smith? The solution to the problem is not removing anyone that has a name that sounds suspicious. One of the most appalling examples is a researcher from Saudi Arabia who couldn't come to a convention because his name was on the list. So in your mind all the Muslim students working on the NASA projects shouldn't be allowed to. [very bigoted statement]If they don't then this country won't advance because I have yet to see more than a handful of good researchers in the CS field who aren't foreign.[/bigoted statement]
Most of the money that comes into research in the US comes from foreigners. One would really hate to see which shit hole this country goes down if all of them were asked to leave.
Most of the money that comes into research in the US comes from foreigners. One would really hate to see which shit hole this country goes down if all of them were asked to leave.
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From: Ossining, New York
Originally Posted by antarius
The United States Constitution applies to all people inside the United States of America, or in control of it's people/Government. Not just citizens.
I need sleep...
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From: NH
Originally Posted by MrFatbooty
The no-fly list is singling out people who for whatever reason shouldn't be on it. Case in point: Ted Kennedy. Senator, Ted Kennedy. He ended up on the no-fly list because of a mistake. There are plenty of normal every day business travelers who have gotten stuck on the list too.
Would you rather a mistake happen to Teddy Kennedy and he missed his flight or to the fictional person Ramzi al-Mustafa who was able to get onto a flight because of an oversight and ram it into the Empire State Building or the Sears Tower?
I preffer to err on the side of caution.
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From: Ossining, New York
Originally Posted by axemansean
The list is stupid because like I said its got a name and a yes/no. If they really want a list then they should have more information. So if someone on that list has the name John Smith then I guess we should find every John Smith and kill them or throw them out in the hope that its the right John Smith? The solution to the problem is not removing anyone that has a name that sounds suspicious. One of the most appalling examples is a researcher from Saudi Arabia who couldn't come to a convention because his name was on the list. So in your mind all the Muslim students working on the NASA projects shouldn't be allowed to. [very bigoted statement]If they don't then this country won't advance because I have yet to see more than a handful of good researchers in the CS field who aren't foreign.
Dude once again you are talking about shit that no-one else is in this thread. Who said anying about killing people because they are on a list
Who said anything about denying muslim students in here? Or denying any group of people in here? No-one. The people being denyed are the ones who are on the list. If they cannot prove that they shouldn't be on the list then they better find another place to go.
I eat plastic.
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From: Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by dE.fUsEd
i agree with bonzo. i would much rather a few people be inconvenienced, than our country being attacked.
the system works. so it's not perfect....but it works.
the system works. so it's not perfect....but it works.
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Originally Posted by BonzoAPD
I was refering to the people who are not yet in the country such as cat stevens was in this case.
If he's on an American company's airliner, in Europe, we can deny them entry onto the plane - and we do. If it's a foreign plane, we usually set something up with that foriegn Government so we can do the same, but if not we'd let them board and then just not let the plane get to US Airspace (so, generally, those Governments hear that and just let us remove the person from the plane, otherwise no one goes.)