bash my beleifs.... (in depth religious debate)
ch1x0r
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 18,629
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From: PA
Originally posted by axemansean
I don't believe in the existence of something that is not tangible. I haven't seen God, nor have I seen pictures of God and you can say that I'll see God when I die. What good does that do to me.
People can say God is this and God is that. Well its their belief and opinion and they are entitled to it.
I don't believe in the existence of something that is not tangible. I haven't seen God, nor have I seen pictures of God and you can say that I'll see God when I die. What good does that do to me.
People can say God is this and God is that. Well its their belief and opinion and they are entitled to it.
how can the human species (classified homo sapiens) be on this earth for hundreds of thousands of years and only in the last 2,000 years does the idea of this god come up? and when he actually does come up its from some old guy traveling through the desert?
Wannabe yuppie
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 25,918
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From: Madison, WI
Originally posted by 99civic_love
i don't believe in god because history leads me not to.
how can the human species (classified homo sapiens) be on this earth for hundreds of thousands of years and only in the last 2,000 years does the idea of this god come up? and when he actually does come up its from some old guy traveling through the desert?
i don't believe in god because history leads me not to.
how can the human species (classified homo sapiens) be on this earth for hundreds of thousands of years and only in the last 2,000 years does the idea of this god come up? and when he actually does come up its from some old guy traveling through the desert?
But pretty much every civilization on record as far back as we have records of or archaeological evidence for has some kind of theology.
To speak on a quasi-metaphysical level maybe none of us have it right but the fact that almost everybody that we ever knew of believes in some kind of supernatural stuff means that we're all trying to rationalize it in human terms.
Alternatively it could mean that humans are freakin retarded and to explain something they can't understand always fabricate some kind of external supernatural force as the reason.
I eat plastic.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,177
Likes: 0
From: Detroit, MI
I'm god...
18sec, this is very interesting stuff. And I don't know why. :thinking: I wouldn't disagree with what you have to say, because I simply haven't put much thought into a lot of this...stuff...lately. Hm.
18sec, this is very interesting stuff. And I don't know why. :thinking: I wouldn't disagree with what you have to say, because I simply haven't put much thought into a lot of this...stuff...lately. Hm.
Cake or Death?
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,749
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From: NJ
My religion Wiccan/pagan, basically follows kind of the same ideals (as with all religions being virtually the same, I whole heartedly agree) Basically the Wicaan religion focuses on a "god" and a "goddess" and they encompass the whole good/evil thing. There is no Heaven.. there is no Hell, they are embodied in the believer. Now.. while I have a hard time believeing in a mystical being, I do believe that the universe itself it some sort of higher power and al things stem from this. The miracles of the world around us, and the infinite power that the human mind can have if opened up to it.
Also.. have you ever had your complete astrological chart done? When looking at astrology, one can't just rely on his or her sun sign. 12 planets were aligned a certain way at the time of each persons birth... makes for a very interesting read.
Also.. have you ever had your complete astrological chart done? When looking at astrology, one can't just rely on his or her sun sign. 12 planets were aligned a certain way at the time of each persons birth... makes for a very interesting read.
Thread Starter
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
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From: San Antonio, Texas
before I sound like "Mr. I know everything and no one else knows anything," let me get this accross:
first of all, I know this rambles on and on and doesn't end. Sorry, its a big topic.
I know I'm not better than anyone else. I know I'm just a grain of salt in this sea of life. And I know my beleives are soley mine.
But pulling in the idea of God/life/everything as a circle, life is a circle as well. See, our generations aren't really much different than others of the past. Actually, they are in the sense that morals are on the decline on a more global scale, but other than that, people still hurt, love, etc. etc.
so if life is a circle, we're key to it, for a circle missing a point along the outside is incomplete. Therefor, the point, be it an event in history or even individual people, is totally nessisary to keep the whole thing going.
take for example a resturant. Anyone who's worked at a reasturant knows what the inner workings are like (lets leave that reality tv bullshit program out of this for a second). There's cooks, waiters, busboys, managers, and greeters. They're all equally nessisary in order to keep the resturant running smooth. But for some reason, each group feels they're more important than the other. For instance, waiters fight with cooks when something goes wrong with the food, and vice versa. There's always the drama.
or even better, I used to play tuba in band during school. Tuba is an interesting instrument. Very beautiful in sound, its typiclly left to play rythim, or as a backing. A foundation, almost. Well, I had two issues with music, really. The first was people telling me what music is. First of all, you can't tell someone whats right, and thats not really my goal with the post (the point being mostly that God is in our lives already and we find it for ourselves). But secondly, I had to play a solo peice in college during my time up there. I think its total bullshit for a tuba to play 32nd notes (roll your tounge and its almost the same) all the while playing up and down runs well above the staff (5 lines that music bases off of).
so the point of these two stories is this: We all find our places in life. We cannot critize someone because of their desicions, and ultimately we're all nessisary as a whole.
see, I understand these delimma's. I'm the type of person who listens to what others have to say and trys and find it within myself. I looks at things and wonders why it is. Being raised catholic, I was told what God is. It didn't satisfy me. I set out to find what god is, and so far, I'm positive I'm on the right track.
But it's funny.... My lifes been disappointing to a degree. I do alot of questionable things. I've flirted with the same sex on a few occations. I see too much coincidence, and try to tie things togeather when there's nothing to be tied. I have the tendency to be poor with personal hygen. I live too much in my head. I'm unmotivated with a career. I really don't know what I want to do, part with the fact that I feel there's too many choices we're given. But all of that doesn't matter because I
a) learn from my mistakes
b) look twords the bigger meaning
c) do not think only of myself
d) know we all make mistakes, and that forgiveness is one key, but learning and not repeating is another.
but because of all these choices, I have been able to try a little of everything and get a solid veiwpoint. Something that happens to everyone as life marches on for them. But some people learn faster than others, and while I'm not the only one to think these things, I'm the only one who 1) cares enough to spread the word and 2) is right here, right now.
so with that last paragraph in mind, please, read on:
you're thinking old ways. You're letting convensional religion cloud your veiws. Thats the central problem with religions.
Like I said, no ONE is right. But to say that because of the fact that religion is in fact wrong is, again, not right.
and I only blame the jews for what they do. Not in spite of them.
for instance, I beleive the jews screwed up in case of their attitudes twords muslims. History lesson:
Back when islam first came about, muslims and jews got along very well. Their religions both said basiclly the same things about honor, respect, one god, and things of the sort.
well, islam was founded by muhammad, who was a strange prophet. See, he knew the religion since it was in his head. But he couldn't write. First of all, thats why muslims memorize the koran. Secondly, thats why the koran can't be taken litteral (along with every other relgious text). And third, thats why the jews didn't take muslims as serious. The jews looked on them as 'lessers' or whatever.
another point to that is that the jews wern't so easy to forgive someone. Their religion has an idea that "give respect when given" whereas muslims and christians both beleive "give respect even when not given." Now, mind you this isn't the case in todays society, but thats something the religions all say.
btw, that last paragraph could give some light as to why the jews have been shit on almost their entire history
eh, not too surpised, considering these are all universal truths.
btw, thanks for caring....
you're a keeper. I'm gonna have to right you individual.
thank you for giving me a point to work off of.
first of all, history is not written by god. It is written by the winners.
however, one can say that God "chooses" the victors. For example, early americans thought God chose for them only to have the continenent america sits on. Manifest destiney, while inappropriate in todays standards, was appropriate at the time.
so lets look at things real quick. God is karmatic. If you do good, he rewards you. If you squander, he punishes.
See, americans of yore did alot in the name of god. And our problem is we're not living up to the reality of that. We're actually saying "screw god" basiclly. This country is so loveless.
so while its understandable to say you don't beleive in god because of this or that, I beleive at the same time its sophmoric.
you are wrong. Oh, so wrong.
allow me to correct you. Religion hasn't just been around for 2,000 years. Sure, jesus has. Muhammad has.
astorlogy is a religion which has been around for thousands of years before christ. Even anchient chinese followed by it.
I'm sure even before that, there was religion.
In fact, the Emerald Tablet (which you would have learned about had you cared enough to learn about it in my initial posts) was around 4000 years before chirst. People like Alexander the Great (who created one of the largest united empires in human history) and even up to Issac Newton (who 'discovered' gravity) were influenced by the Emerald Tablet.
Want more? The Egyptions at the hight of their empire, were heavily influenced by a pharo (can't remember his name) and his wife (nefferitti, tho I hacked the spelling). Ironiclly enough, they were the most fair/forgiving leaders of the egyptian empire. They opted to worship one god instead of several, and most importantly, the renamed Ra.
See, because of the last points, some of the ignorant high priestes who were blinded by only what was given to them (religion how they knew it before change), and not looking at things differently (they didn't want to evolve), they opted instead of living a perfect life, we'll just kill the pharo, replace them with someone appointed, and ignore any of it happend.
funny thing. Had the egyptions addopted that idea, its feasable to say that the jews wouldn't have had to revolt, since moses's "one god" beleive would have meshed with the egyptions.
actually, the Emerald Tablet predated the jews, and in it it preached one god. Maybe its the same as the ten commandments? They both hold the same idea's, good and bad morals.
but one was more accept while the other repressed. Ironiclly, they both hold mystisism (the emerald tablets mystisim is known as "alchemy" which ties to the golden era mandkind went through with Leonardo DeVinche and such (who was also influcenced by the emerald tablet, and God)
because its a universal idea. There is in fact one god, and he is all.
being human, no one ever will
I'll agree. But you're missing a point I'm trying to raise. We're all rationalizing the same feeling. But here we are all saying we're all wrong.
more and more I'm thinking I was here to bring togeather idea's. Maybe its egotistical, but first of all, I'm much more spiritual than the average american, and secondly, here I am, trying to bring us all togeather on here.
might be the case, but I like to think optimisticlly.
techniclly we are. We're also jesus, muhammad, you and me.
see, I think because of the conidtions of my life and whatnot, maybe this is my thing. Maybe this is why I'm here. Of course, I'm rationalizing as much as everyone else, but some people are close to the answer than others.
man and woman, black and white, good and bad.
positive and negative. Again, universal truths.
well, if I had to pick apart the idea, this is what I would say:
its right in a metaphorical way. Heaven to me is a dream, but much longer. Like a dream, in heaven anything is possible, but unlike most dreams, we're in total control. Heaven is what we want, what we love. All the temporaryness in our lives is heaven.
but then again, there's also hell. I think we're here in hell right now. Life is great, but there's pain and suffering and imbiguity where heaven is happyness and knowing whats right.
like reincarnation, we're damned to repeat life until we learn. Learn what? Well, to learn what porpous God has for us. If its a global thing or a family thing or even a personal thing is for us to decide. And once that happens, we're rewarded. What the reward is? thats for god to know.
allow me to shed light on my god:
again, he's everything, and all right and wrong. Why did polytheistic societys crumble? Because they lived a lie. And the lie is there's one god. We're all part of something, which is part of something else, etc etc. Now, this is never-ending. Well, I take that back. Life ends and begins at a point, but only God knows when. Both Muslim and Christian faith follow that idea, considering they both have climaxes.
you're absolutely right, but we cannot open it individually. All of us need to realise this. And its not something like saying "I beleive in god" and just saying it. It goes further, because not only must you truly beleive it, but at the same time, you must live it.
actually, if you want to get technical, the only planets that effect us are Mercury, Venus, The Sun, Mars, Saturn, and Jupitor.
but if you want to look at it from todays veiws, you're abosolutly right about celstrial body's having their say in us. Example:
The moon's gravity effects the tides. The tides are water. We are 70% what? So I think the moon does effect us. We don't relize it. In the same tolken, the enviorment effects us, because rain may make us feel one way, and a sunny day makes us feel another.
The planets create gravity like the moon. Given astrology was started before all the other planets were discovered, at the same time, I think the whole universe effects us. We just don't know it.
first of all, I know this rambles on and on and doesn't end. Sorry, its a big topic.
I know I'm not better than anyone else. I know I'm just a grain of salt in this sea of life. And I know my beleives are soley mine.
But pulling in the idea of God/life/everything as a circle, life is a circle as well. See, our generations aren't really much different than others of the past. Actually, they are in the sense that morals are on the decline on a more global scale, but other than that, people still hurt, love, etc. etc.
so if life is a circle, we're key to it, for a circle missing a point along the outside is incomplete. Therefor, the point, be it an event in history or even individual people, is totally nessisary to keep the whole thing going.
take for example a resturant. Anyone who's worked at a reasturant knows what the inner workings are like (lets leave that reality tv bullshit program out of this for a second). There's cooks, waiters, busboys, managers, and greeters. They're all equally nessisary in order to keep the resturant running smooth. But for some reason, each group feels they're more important than the other. For instance, waiters fight with cooks when something goes wrong with the food, and vice versa. There's always the drama.
or even better, I used to play tuba in band during school. Tuba is an interesting instrument. Very beautiful in sound, its typiclly left to play rythim, or as a backing. A foundation, almost. Well, I had two issues with music, really. The first was people telling me what music is. First of all, you can't tell someone whats right, and thats not really my goal with the post (the point being mostly that God is in our lives already and we find it for ourselves). But secondly, I had to play a solo peice in college during my time up there. I think its total bullshit for a tuba to play 32nd notes (roll your tounge and its almost the same) all the while playing up and down runs well above the staff (5 lines that music bases off of).
so the point of these two stories is this: We all find our places in life. We cannot critize someone because of their desicions, and ultimately we're all nessisary as a whole.
see, I understand these delimma's. I'm the type of person who listens to what others have to say and trys and find it within myself. I looks at things and wonders why it is. Being raised catholic, I was told what God is. It didn't satisfy me. I set out to find what god is, and so far, I'm positive I'm on the right track.
But it's funny.... My lifes been disappointing to a degree. I do alot of questionable things. I've flirted with the same sex on a few occations. I see too much coincidence, and try to tie things togeather when there's nothing to be tied. I have the tendency to be poor with personal hygen. I live too much in my head. I'm unmotivated with a career. I really don't know what I want to do, part with the fact that I feel there's too many choices we're given. But all of that doesn't matter because I
a) learn from my mistakes
b) look twords the bigger meaning
c) do not think only of myself
d) know we all make mistakes, and that forgiveness is one key, but learning and not repeating is another.
but because of all these choices, I have been able to try a little of everything and get a solid veiwpoint. Something that happens to everyone as life marches on for them. But some people learn faster than others, and while I'm not the only one to think these things, I'm the only one who 1) cares enough to spread the word and 2) is right here, right now.
so with that last paragraph in mind, please, read on:
Originally posted by DVPGSR
Or just accepting other religions and the fact that there is no "right" religion.
And stop blaming the Jews for everything.
Or just accepting other religions and the fact that there is no "right" religion.
And stop blaming the Jews for everything.
Like I said, no ONE is right. But to say that because of the fact that religion is in fact wrong is, again, not right.
and I only blame the jews for what they do. Not in spite of them.
for instance, I beleive the jews screwed up in case of their attitudes twords muslims. History lesson:
Back when islam first came about, muslims and jews got along very well. Their religions both said basiclly the same things about honor, respect, one god, and things of the sort.
well, islam was founded by muhammad, who was a strange prophet. See, he knew the religion since it was in his head. But he couldn't write. First of all, thats why muslims memorize the koran. Secondly, thats why the koran can't be taken litteral (along with every other relgious text). And third, thats why the jews didn't take muslims as serious. The jews looked on them as 'lessers' or whatever.
another point to that is that the jews wern't so easy to forgive someone. Their religion has an idea that "give respect when given" whereas muslims and christians both beleive "give respect even when not given." Now, mind you this isn't the case in todays society, but thats something the religions all say.
btw, that last paragraph could give some light as to why the jews have been shit on almost their entire history
Originally posted by 99civic_love
the god is a circle thing is a buddhist/gnostic idea.
other than that i'm too lazy to read the rest, sorry.
the god is a circle thing is a buddhist/gnostic idea.
other than that i'm too lazy to read the rest, sorry.
btw, thanks for caring....
Originally posted by axemansean
I don't believe in the existence of something that is not tangible. I haven't seen God, nor have I seen pictures of God and you can say that I'll see God when I die. What good does that do to me.
People can say God is this and God is that. Well its their belief and opinion and they are entitled to it.
I don't believe in the existence of something that is not tangible. I haven't seen God, nor have I seen pictures of God and you can say that I'll see God when I die. What good does that do to me.
People can say God is this and God is that. Well its their belief and opinion and they are entitled to it.
thank you for giving me a point to work off of.
Originally posted by 99civic_love
i don't believe in god because history leads me not to.
i don't believe in god because history leads me not to.
however, one can say that God "chooses" the victors. For example, early americans thought God chose for them only to have the continenent america sits on. Manifest destiney, while inappropriate in todays standards, was appropriate at the time.
so lets look at things real quick. God is karmatic. If you do good, he rewards you. If you squander, he punishes.
See, americans of yore did alot in the name of god. And our problem is we're not living up to the reality of that. We're actually saying "screw god" basiclly. This country is so loveless.
so while its understandable to say you don't beleive in god because of this or that, I beleive at the same time its sophmoric.
how can the human species (classified homo sapiens) be on this earth for hundreds of thousands of years and only in the last 2,000 years does the idea of this god come up? and when he actually does come up its from some old guy traveling through the desert?
allow me to correct you. Religion hasn't just been around for 2,000 years. Sure, jesus has. Muhammad has.
astorlogy is a religion which has been around for thousands of years before christ. Even anchient chinese followed by it.
I'm sure even before that, there was religion.
In fact, the Emerald Tablet (which you would have learned about had you cared enough to learn about it in my initial posts) was around 4000 years before chirst. People like Alexander the Great (who created one of the largest united empires in human history) and even up to Issac Newton (who 'discovered' gravity) were influenced by the Emerald Tablet.
Want more? The Egyptions at the hight of their empire, were heavily influenced by a pharo (can't remember his name) and his wife (nefferitti, tho I hacked the spelling). Ironiclly enough, they were the most fair/forgiving leaders of the egyptian empire. They opted to worship one god instead of several, and most importantly, the renamed Ra.
See, because of the last points, some of the ignorant high priestes who were blinded by only what was given to them (religion how they knew it before change), and not looking at things differently (they didn't want to evolve), they opted instead of living a perfect life, we'll just kill the pharo, replace them with someone appointed, and ignore any of it happend.
funny thing. Had the egyptions addopted that idea, its feasable to say that the jews wouldn't have had to revolt, since moses's "one god" beleive would have meshed with the egyptions.
Originally posted by MrFatbooty
More like ~5700 years if you want to call the Jewish calendar as starting from the beginning of monotheism.
More like ~5700 years if you want to call the Jewish calendar as starting from the beginning of monotheism.
but one was more accept while the other repressed. Ironiclly, they both hold mystisism (the emerald tablets mystisim is known as "alchemy" which ties to the golden era mandkind went through with Leonardo DeVinche and such (who was also influcenced by the emerald tablet, and God)
But pretty much every civilization on record as far back as we have records of or archaeological evidence for has some kind of theology.
To speak on a quasi-metaphysical level maybe none of us have it right
but the fact that almost everybody that we ever knew of believes in some kind of supernatural stuff means that we're all trying to rationalize it in human terms.
more and more I'm thinking I was here to bring togeather idea's. Maybe its egotistical, but first of all, I'm much more spiritual than the average american, and secondly, here I am, trying to bring us all togeather on here.
Alternatively it could mean that humans are freakin retarded and to explain something they can't understand always fabricate some kind of external supernatural force as the reason.
Originally posted by redgoober4life
I'm god...
I'm god...
18sec, this is very interesting stuff. And I don't know why. :thinking: I wouldn't disagree with what you have to say, because I simply haven't put much thought into a lot of this...stuff...lately. Hm.
Originally posted by EriksShadow
My religion Wiccan/pagan, basically follows kind of the same ideals (as with all religions being virtually the same, I whole heartedly agree) Basically the Wicaan religion focuses on a "god" and a "goddess" and they encompass the whole good/evil thing.
My religion Wiccan/pagan, basically follows kind of the same ideals (as with all religions being virtually the same, I whole heartedly agree) Basically the Wicaan religion focuses on a "god" and a "goddess" and they encompass the whole good/evil thing.
positive and negative. Again, universal truths.
There is no Heaven.. there is no Hell, they are embodied in the believer.
its right in a metaphorical way. Heaven to me is a dream, but much longer. Like a dream, in heaven anything is possible, but unlike most dreams, we're in total control. Heaven is what we want, what we love. All the temporaryness in our lives is heaven.
but then again, there's also hell. I think we're here in hell right now. Life is great, but there's pain and suffering and imbiguity where heaven is happyness and knowing whats right.
like reincarnation, we're damned to repeat life until we learn. Learn what? Well, to learn what porpous God has for us. If its a global thing or a family thing or even a personal thing is for us to decide. And once that happens, we're rewarded. What the reward is? thats for god to know.
Now.. while I have a hard time believeing in a mystical being, I do believe that the universe itself it some sort of higher power and al things stem from this.
again, he's everything, and all right and wrong. Why did polytheistic societys crumble? Because they lived a lie. And the lie is there's one god. We're all part of something, which is part of something else, etc etc. Now, this is never-ending. Well, I take that back. Life ends and begins at a point, but only God knows when. Both Muslim and Christian faith follow that idea, considering they both have climaxes.
The miracles of the world around us, and the infinite power that the human mind can have if opened up to it.
Also.. have you ever had your complete astrological chart done? When looking at astrology, one can't just rely on his or her sun sign. 12 planets were aligned a certain way at the time of each persons birth... makes for a very interesting read.
but if you want to look at it from todays veiws, you're abosolutly right about celstrial body's having their say in us. Example:
The moon's gravity effects the tides. The tides are water. We are 70% what? So I think the moon does effect us. We don't relize it. In the same tolken, the enviorment effects us, because rain may make us feel one way, and a sunny day makes us feel another.
The planets create gravity like the moon. Given astrology was started before all the other planets were discovered, at the same time, I think the whole universe effects us. We just don't know it.
Thread Starter
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
btw, don't let my bad spelling deter you from listening to me. I'm in a hurry to get idea's out, and you know.....
ok. This is a long read. I know its a very long read, but if you actually care, you'll read it. If you study philosophy or anything similar, you'll read similar excerts, where two minds sit there and talk out a problem. Here's my retort.
cliffs notes - Sure, we don't 'see' god, but alas, we do:
Nonchalant Rage: aol probs?
Sr Flojo 1: ok, either aol sucks, or this computer has shit for memory
Sr Flojo 1: I'm thinking the latter
Nonchalant Rage: are you not on your usual comp?
Sr Flojo 1: yup, 64 megs
Sr Flojo 1: eh, its my dads comp, so I don't care
Sr Flojo 1: mines been out of commission for a while, fried the cpu/motherboard
Sr Flojo 1: I'll agree aol sucks
Sr Flojo 1: but it doesn't totally suck
Sr Flojo 1: ever ISP is good and bad
Sr Flojo 1: every*
Nonchalant Rage: eh i use cable
Nonchalant Rage: when cables out
Nonchalant Rage: i dial in to pdq
Nonchalant Rage: works perfect
Nonchalant Rage: eh, i suppose
Sr Flojo 1: lol, I don't need cable/dsl
Sr Flojo 1: hard to say, really
Sr Flojo 1: there's a whole debate behind this
Nonchalant Rage: whyso?
Sr Flojo 1: there's good and bad to everything, so you'd have to break alot of things down
Sr Flojo 1: lol, I had an epiphany the other night and its totally effected my life
Sr Flojo 1: I'm starting to force myself to be unbiased
Sr Flojo 1: sucks, but I feel better because of it
Sr Flojo 1: 3rd times a charm
Nonchalant Rage: theres really no bad to cable
Nonchalant Rage: fast as shit
Nonchalant Rage: hardly ever down
Nonchalant Rage: only costs 30 bucks
Sr Flojo 1: maybe, but I don't pay for my ISP
Sr Flojo 1: I piggy back off my folks :-p
Nonchalant Rage: unbiased towards what?
Nonchalant Rage: i do too :-P
Sr Flojo 1: shit, everything, really
Sr Flojo 1: bah, well, thats you're circumstances :-p
Sr Flojo 1: yeah, I'm just trying to push myself twords whatever I'm doing
Sr Flojo 1: not really sure what it is, tho
Nonchalant Rage: yeah...youre not really making much sense
Nonchalant Rage: and the sense you are making is ambiguous
Nonchalant Rage: lol
Sr Flojo 1: true, but ambiguity is life
Sr Flojo 1: everything is the same, just generalizations with different details
Sr Flojo 1: maybe I'm a minor prophet
Sr Flojo 1: thats about the only thing I can think
Sr Flojo 1: but that seems egotistical
Nonchalant Rage: no, dont flatter yourself
Sr Flojo 1: lol
Sr Flojo 1: I know
Sr Flojo 1: thats why I said minor
Sr Flojo 1: the things I think arn't widely accepted
Sr Flojo 1: Honda-Acura.net - bash my beleifs.... (in depth religious debate)
Nonchalant Rage: yay my new phones is done rechargign
Sr Flojo 1: sweet
Sr Flojo 1: see, god and religion are important to me, but not in the traditional sense
Sr Flojo 1: I mean, I was born catholic, but I'm liberal
Sr Flojo 1: read that thread, and soon refresh it, since I'm about to post another post
Nonchalant Rage: liberal catholic ;-)
Sr Flojo 1: lol, jumbo shrimp :-p
Sr Flojo 1: oxymorons
Sr Flojo 1: analogy's
Nonchalant Rage: exactly
Sr Flojo 1: things of the sort are important
Nonchalant Rage: i think im going to mess with my phone
Nonchalant Rage: lol
Nonchalant Rage: HAHA
Nonchalant Rage: it has a screensaver that says
Sr Flojo 1: lol, yeah, I'll get you thinking too much
Nonchalant Rage: "be safe be courteous"
Sr Flojo 1: still, its good words
Sr Flojo 1: but the thing is, safe and courteous don't really have defined things
Sr Flojo 1: its different to everyone
Sr Flojo 1: see what I'm saying about unbiased now?
Nonchalant Rage: yeah
Sr Flojo 1: like, you may drive fast, but that doesn't mean you're unsafe
Nonchalant Rage: universal truths
Sr Flojo 1: exactly
Nonchalant Rage: what exactly is unsafe...
Sr Flojo 1: without thought
Nonchalant Rage: is it?
Sr Flojo 1: not looking at the situation and making the proper conclution
Sr Flojo 1: like, you can get away with speeding sometimes, but not always
Nonchalant Rage: ya
Nonchalant Rage: goddamn this phone pwns hard
Sr Flojo 1: lol, **** a cell phone :-p
Sr Flojo 1: I hate them
Sr Flojo 1: jmo
Nonchalant Rage: mmhmm
Sr Flojo 1: eh, and again, this is personal opinion
Sr Flojo 1: but I don't think anyone is really that important
Sr Flojo 1: sure, they're convienient
Sr Flojo 1: very convienient
Sr Flojo 1: but they'll give you brain tumors
Sr Flojo 1: and cause accidents, shit like that
Nonchalant Rage: so do cars :-P
Sr Flojo 1: people with cell phones worry more about popularity than anything else
Nonchalant Rage: they both look cool
Sr Flojo 1: true
Sr Flojo 1: eh, cars are more function
Sr Flojo 1: I don't need a cell phone when I can use a pay phone
Sr Flojo 1: but we don't need cars when we can use busses
Nonchalant Rage: mmhmm
Sr Flojo 1: see, the whole of society is wrong
Sr Flojo 1: everything it comprises of
Sr Flojo 1: granted, the things are great
Sr Flojo 1: I mean, tv, internet, shit like that?
Sr Flojo 1: its awsome
Sr Flojo 1: but we **** it up
Nonchalant Rage: of course
Nonchalant Rage: were human
Sr Flojo 1: humanity needs to accept the fact that its imperfect, and we need to learn how to associate that into our lives
Sr Flojo 1: mostly about learning lessons, I guess
Sr Flojo 1: no one does anymore
Sr Flojo 1: and no one cares about God anymore
Nonchalant Rage: i dont think humans think theyre perfect
Sr Flojo 1: its just about themselves
Sr Flojo 1: sure they do
Sr Flojo 1: bush inc. thinks they're perfect
Sr Flojo 1: they think only they are right
Sr Flojo 1: most religions feel the same
Sr Flojo 1: christians think only they are right
Sr Flojo 1: imports think domestics are stoopid
Sr Flojo 1: and vice versa
Nonchalant Rage: but it isnt to the point of perfection
Nonchalant Rage: you might think youre right
Sr Flojo 1: well, perfection is God
Sr Flojo 1: all good and evil
Sr Flojo 1: the thing is, we're all God
Sr Flojo 1: we're all equal
Sr Flojo 1: but we don't consider ourselves equal
Sr Flojo 1: we're the same level as jesus is
Sr Flojo 1: and we all have the ability to be like him
Sr Flojo 1: or muhhmad
Sr Flojo 1: or budha
Sr Flojo 1: but our flaw makes us do what we want
Nonchalant Rage: how are we the same level as jesus
Sr Flojo 1: well, we all love
Nonchalant Rage: he was the messiah in the flesh
Sr Flojo 1: metaphoriclly
Sr Flojo 1: we're all jesus
Sr Flojo 1: we can all love as much as him
Sr Flojo 1: but only we can choose if we do or not
Sr Flojo 1: the miricals and shit? we all see miricals in our lives
Sr Flojo 1: we all do amazing feats
Sr Flojo 1: but they're taylored to ourselves
Sr Flojo 1: see what I'm saying? making sense?
Nonchalant Rage: well
Nonchalant Rage: i mean they arent nessecarily miracles
Sr Flojo 1: define mircales?
Sr Flojo 1: see, people think traditionally
Sr Flojo 1: they think big
Sr Flojo 1: miricals happen every day
Sr Flojo 1: example:
Sr Flojo 1: the other day while I was on a delivery at work, I was going out to my car after I dropped off the pizza
Sr Flojo 1: well, I noticed on my car there was a moth on my grill
Sr Flojo 1: right in the middle, kinda facing up down (head at top)
Sr Flojo 1: so basiclly, it was deviding my grill in half
Sr Flojo 1: well, thing is, I noticed something similar a few weeks ago
Sr Flojo 1: a dead moth was on my grill
Sr Flojo 1: same place, same position
Sr Flojo 1: well, back to the original point, I went to remove the bug from the grill
Sr Flojo 1: it was still alive, so I was pretty hyped about that.
Sr Flojo 1: as I get in my car, I see this pontiac speed by
Sr Flojo 1: we're in a residential area, small-ass road
Sr Flojo 1: well, I'm like "asshole should have slowed down" as I go to pull out
Sr Flojo 1: but I pulled out without checking my blind spot
Sr Flojo 1: so you may ask yourself, whats the point of this?
Sr Flojo 1: well, if I hadn't moved that moth
Sr Flojo 1: I would have gotten plowed by the pontiac
Sr Flojo 1: and it probably would have been my fault
Sr Flojo 1: that my friend is a mirical
Sr Flojo 1: and a mirical is nothing but coincidence
Nonchalant Rage: maybe you wouldve checked
Sr Flojo 1: watch the movie "Magnolia"
Sr Flojo 1: maybe?
Sr Flojo 1: who knows
Sr Flojo 1: but as it stands, I didn't
Sr Flojo 1: the problem is we get hypothetical
Nonchalant Rage: ive seen the movie
Sr Flojo 1: the reality is I wouldn't have checked
Sr Flojo 1: I know I wouldn't have
Nonchalant Rage: be more careful when you drive
Sr Flojo 1: sorry, I was afk
Sr Flojo 1: and thats too easy of a solution for myself
Sr Flojo 1: maybe for someone else, on the other hand
Nonchalant Rage: yeah
Sr Flojo 1: oh well, thats enough for me
Sr Flojo 1: sorry to make you read all that :-p
Originally posted by axemansean
I don't believe in the existence of something that is not tangible. I haven't seen God, nor have I seen pictures of God and you can say that I'll see God when I die. What good does that do to me.
People can say God is this and God is that. Well its their belief and opinion and they are entitled to it.
I don't believe in the existence of something that is not tangible. I haven't seen God, nor have I seen pictures of God and you can say that I'll see God when I die. What good does that do to me.
People can say God is this and God is that. Well its their belief and opinion and they are entitled to it.
cliffs notes - Sure, we don't 'see' god, but alas, we do:
Nonchalant Rage: aol probs?
Sr Flojo 1: ok, either aol sucks, or this computer has shit for memory
Sr Flojo 1: I'm thinking the latter
Nonchalant Rage: are you not on your usual comp?
Sr Flojo 1: yup, 64 megs
Sr Flojo 1: eh, its my dads comp, so I don't care
Sr Flojo 1: mines been out of commission for a while, fried the cpu/motherboard
Sr Flojo 1: I'll agree aol sucks
Sr Flojo 1: but it doesn't totally suck
Sr Flojo 1: ever ISP is good and bad
Sr Flojo 1: every*
Nonchalant Rage: eh i use cable
Nonchalant Rage: when cables out
Nonchalant Rage: i dial in to pdq
Nonchalant Rage: works perfect
Nonchalant Rage: eh, i suppose
Sr Flojo 1: lol, I don't need cable/dsl
Sr Flojo 1: hard to say, really
Sr Flojo 1: there's a whole debate behind this
Nonchalant Rage: whyso?
Sr Flojo 1: there's good and bad to everything, so you'd have to break alot of things down
Sr Flojo 1: lol, I had an epiphany the other night and its totally effected my life
Sr Flojo 1: I'm starting to force myself to be unbiased
Sr Flojo 1: sucks, but I feel better because of it
Sr Flojo 1: 3rd times a charm
Nonchalant Rage: theres really no bad to cable
Nonchalant Rage: fast as shit
Nonchalant Rage: hardly ever down
Nonchalant Rage: only costs 30 bucks
Sr Flojo 1: maybe, but I don't pay for my ISP
Sr Flojo 1: I piggy back off my folks :-p
Nonchalant Rage: unbiased towards what?
Nonchalant Rage: i do too :-P
Sr Flojo 1: shit, everything, really
Sr Flojo 1: bah, well, thats you're circumstances :-p
Sr Flojo 1: yeah, I'm just trying to push myself twords whatever I'm doing
Sr Flojo 1: not really sure what it is, tho
Nonchalant Rage: yeah...youre not really making much sense
Nonchalant Rage: and the sense you are making is ambiguous
Nonchalant Rage: lol
Sr Flojo 1: true, but ambiguity is life
Sr Flojo 1: everything is the same, just generalizations with different details
Sr Flojo 1: maybe I'm a minor prophet
Sr Flojo 1: thats about the only thing I can think
Sr Flojo 1: but that seems egotistical
Nonchalant Rage: no, dont flatter yourself
Sr Flojo 1: lol
Sr Flojo 1: I know
Sr Flojo 1: thats why I said minor
Sr Flojo 1: the things I think arn't widely accepted
Sr Flojo 1: Honda-Acura.net - bash my beleifs.... (in depth religious debate)
Nonchalant Rage: yay my new phones is done rechargign
Sr Flojo 1: sweet
Sr Flojo 1: see, god and religion are important to me, but not in the traditional sense
Sr Flojo 1: I mean, I was born catholic, but I'm liberal
Sr Flojo 1: read that thread, and soon refresh it, since I'm about to post another post
Nonchalant Rage: liberal catholic ;-)
Sr Flojo 1: lol, jumbo shrimp :-p
Sr Flojo 1: oxymorons
Sr Flojo 1: analogy's
Nonchalant Rage: exactly
Sr Flojo 1: things of the sort are important
Nonchalant Rage: i think im going to mess with my phone
Nonchalant Rage: lol
Nonchalant Rage: HAHA
Nonchalant Rage: it has a screensaver that says
Sr Flojo 1: lol, yeah, I'll get you thinking too much
Nonchalant Rage: "be safe be courteous"
Sr Flojo 1: still, its good words
Sr Flojo 1: but the thing is, safe and courteous don't really have defined things
Sr Flojo 1: its different to everyone
Sr Flojo 1: see what I'm saying about unbiased now?
Nonchalant Rage: yeah
Sr Flojo 1: like, you may drive fast, but that doesn't mean you're unsafe
Nonchalant Rage: universal truths
Sr Flojo 1: exactly
Nonchalant Rage: what exactly is unsafe...
Sr Flojo 1: without thought
Nonchalant Rage: is it?
Sr Flojo 1: not looking at the situation and making the proper conclution
Sr Flojo 1: like, you can get away with speeding sometimes, but not always
Nonchalant Rage: ya
Nonchalant Rage: goddamn this phone pwns hard
Sr Flojo 1: lol, **** a cell phone :-p
Sr Flojo 1: I hate them
Sr Flojo 1: jmo
Nonchalant Rage: mmhmm
Sr Flojo 1: eh, and again, this is personal opinion
Sr Flojo 1: but I don't think anyone is really that important
Sr Flojo 1: sure, they're convienient
Sr Flojo 1: very convienient
Sr Flojo 1: but they'll give you brain tumors
Sr Flojo 1: and cause accidents, shit like that
Nonchalant Rage: so do cars :-P
Sr Flojo 1: people with cell phones worry more about popularity than anything else
Nonchalant Rage: they both look cool
Sr Flojo 1: true
Sr Flojo 1: eh, cars are more function
Sr Flojo 1: I don't need a cell phone when I can use a pay phone
Sr Flojo 1: but we don't need cars when we can use busses
Nonchalant Rage: mmhmm
Sr Flojo 1: see, the whole of society is wrong
Sr Flojo 1: everything it comprises of
Sr Flojo 1: granted, the things are great
Sr Flojo 1: I mean, tv, internet, shit like that?
Sr Flojo 1: its awsome
Sr Flojo 1: but we **** it up
Nonchalant Rage: of course
Nonchalant Rage: were human
Sr Flojo 1: humanity needs to accept the fact that its imperfect, and we need to learn how to associate that into our lives
Sr Flojo 1: mostly about learning lessons, I guess
Sr Flojo 1: no one does anymore
Sr Flojo 1: and no one cares about God anymore
Nonchalant Rage: i dont think humans think theyre perfect
Sr Flojo 1: its just about themselves
Sr Flojo 1: sure they do
Sr Flojo 1: bush inc. thinks they're perfect
Sr Flojo 1: they think only they are right
Sr Flojo 1: most religions feel the same
Sr Flojo 1: christians think only they are right
Sr Flojo 1: imports think domestics are stoopid
Sr Flojo 1: and vice versa
Nonchalant Rage: but it isnt to the point of perfection
Nonchalant Rage: you might think youre right
Sr Flojo 1: well, perfection is God
Sr Flojo 1: all good and evil
Sr Flojo 1: the thing is, we're all God
Sr Flojo 1: we're all equal
Sr Flojo 1: but we don't consider ourselves equal
Sr Flojo 1: we're the same level as jesus is
Sr Flojo 1: and we all have the ability to be like him
Sr Flojo 1: or muhhmad
Sr Flojo 1: or budha
Sr Flojo 1: but our flaw makes us do what we want
Nonchalant Rage: how are we the same level as jesus
Sr Flojo 1: well, we all love
Nonchalant Rage: he was the messiah in the flesh
Sr Flojo 1: metaphoriclly
Sr Flojo 1: we're all jesus
Sr Flojo 1: we can all love as much as him
Sr Flojo 1: but only we can choose if we do or not
Sr Flojo 1: the miricals and shit? we all see miricals in our lives
Sr Flojo 1: we all do amazing feats
Sr Flojo 1: but they're taylored to ourselves
Sr Flojo 1: see what I'm saying? making sense?
Nonchalant Rage: well
Nonchalant Rage: i mean they arent nessecarily miracles
Sr Flojo 1: define mircales?
Sr Flojo 1: see, people think traditionally
Sr Flojo 1: they think big
Sr Flojo 1: miricals happen every day
Sr Flojo 1: example:
Sr Flojo 1: the other day while I was on a delivery at work, I was going out to my car after I dropped off the pizza
Sr Flojo 1: well, I noticed on my car there was a moth on my grill
Sr Flojo 1: right in the middle, kinda facing up down (head at top)
Sr Flojo 1: so basiclly, it was deviding my grill in half
Sr Flojo 1: well, thing is, I noticed something similar a few weeks ago
Sr Flojo 1: a dead moth was on my grill
Sr Flojo 1: same place, same position
Sr Flojo 1: well, back to the original point, I went to remove the bug from the grill
Sr Flojo 1: it was still alive, so I was pretty hyped about that.
Sr Flojo 1: as I get in my car, I see this pontiac speed by
Sr Flojo 1: we're in a residential area, small-ass road
Sr Flojo 1: well, I'm like "asshole should have slowed down" as I go to pull out
Sr Flojo 1: but I pulled out without checking my blind spot
Sr Flojo 1: so you may ask yourself, whats the point of this?
Sr Flojo 1: well, if I hadn't moved that moth
Sr Flojo 1: I would have gotten plowed by the pontiac
Sr Flojo 1: and it probably would have been my fault
Sr Flojo 1: that my friend is a mirical
Sr Flojo 1: and a mirical is nothing but coincidence
Nonchalant Rage: maybe you wouldve checked
Sr Flojo 1: watch the movie "Magnolia"
Sr Flojo 1: maybe?
Sr Flojo 1: who knows
Sr Flojo 1: but as it stands, I didn't
Sr Flojo 1: the problem is we get hypothetical
Nonchalant Rage: ive seen the movie
Sr Flojo 1: the reality is I wouldn't have checked
Sr Flojo 1: I know I wouldn't have
Nonchalant Rage: be more careful when you drive
Sr Flojo 1: sorry, I was afk
Sr Flojo 1: and thats too easy of a solution for myself
Sr Flojo 1: maybe for someone else, on the other hand
Nonchalant Rage: yeah
Sr Flojo 1: oh well, thats enough for me
Sr Flojo 1: sorry to make you read all that :-p
Thread Starter
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
not to knock on my buddy (nonchalant rage), but something he said is interesting.
this entire time we're IMing each other, I'm talking philosophy. He's talking about his cell phone.
people put too much faith in their items, and not enough faith in God.
this entire time we're IMing each other, I'm talking philosophy. He's talking about his cell phone.
people put too much faith in their items, and not enough faith in God.
Cake or Death?
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,749
Likes: 0
From: NJ
I'm going to add you to my Blist... I'd like to discuss this more one on one with you... So if you get a IM from TheMaskedPhantom.. that's me.
You have a very interesting out look on things. I for one, love learning about the religion and beiliefs in others. Knowledge is power... and ignorance establishes fear and hatred.
For example... one of the most hated religions in the Christian world is Satanism. The general view on Satanists is completly warped and just not true. Do I agree with them? They have some interesting ideas... but, I feel that my regard for humanity is too strong to 100% agree with them. But I have no fear or hatred of them.
You have a very interesting out look on things. I for one, love learning about the religion and beiliefs in others. Knowledge is power... and ignorance establishes fear and hatred.
For example... one of the most hated religions in the Christian world is Satanism. The general view on Satanists is completly warped and just not true. Do I agree with them? They have some interesting ideas... but, I feel that my regard for humanity is too strong to 100% agree with them. But I have no fear or hatred of them.
ch1x0r
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 18,629
Likes: 0
From: PA
Originally posted by MrFatbooty
More like ~5700 years if you want to call the Jewish calendar as starting from the beginning of monotheism.
But pretty much every civilization on record as far back as we have records of or archaeological evidence for has some kind of theology.
To speak on a quasi-metaphysical level maybe none of us have it right but the fact that almost everybody that we ever knew of believes in some kind of supernatural stuff means that we're all trying to rationalize it in human terms.
Alternatively it could mean that humans are freakin retarded and to explain something they can't understand always fabricate some kind of external supernatural force as the reason.
More like ~5700 years if you want to call the Jewish calendar as starting from the beginning of monotheism.
But pretty much every civilization on record as far back as we have records of or archaeological evidence for has some kind of theology.
To speak on a quasi-metaphysical level maybe none of us have it right but the fact that almost everybody that we ever knew of believes in some kind of supernatural stuff means that we're all trying to rationalize it in human terms.
Alternatively it could mean that humans are freakin retarded and to explain something they can't understand always fabricate some kind of external supernatural force as the reason.
monotheism vs. multiple deities.
(not counting the ~15 years that akhenaten came up w/monotheism for self-centered reasons) judaism was the first monotheistic religion.
the reasons why most cultures have a religion could vary. personally, i believe i started in the beginning as a reason to explain natural events, but my old history professor viewed it as a way to connect a group.
i'm sorry i didn't clarify about the what religion i was talking about (i meant judaism, and i obviously had the date wrong--i was thinking about christianity, and yes, i know judaism is much older than christianity.)
remember, i'm a historian. i say history leads me not to believe in a god, and i won't explain myself further. in my head, it makes sense, but in someone else's mind, it may mean something completely different (ie-babel fish, for the hitchhiker fans.)
personally, i don't think anyone should attack anyone for their religious beliefs (although sometimes i get irritated, i would never force someone to be an athiest). i just get aggravated with the general christian population for trying to convert me and all of the pain and suffering they put others through unnecessarily.
but 18secferio, you have a different view on your religion than most people who believe in god. and its much more open-minded. you might want to look into gnostic christianity, i think it might make more sense to you.