LS TURBO vs. GSR
Hellsing Agency
Joined: Mar 2002
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Wow, great thread. Hopefully this will put an end to the whole "B18B turbo smokes B18C turbo" myth.
*Note* I am not disputing the fact that a B18b may be more boost friendly and "easier" to turbo. I am/was disputing the claim that a turbo LS results in superior performance to a turbo GSR.
Shingo
*Note* I am not disputing the fact that a B18b may be more boost friendly and "easier" to turbo. I am/was disputing the claim that a turbo LS results in superior performance to a turbo GSR.
Shingo
I need sleep...
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,632
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From: NH
Originally posted by Shingoblade-GSR
Wow, great thread.
*Note* I am not disputing the fact that a B18b may be more boost friendly and "easier" to turbo. I am disputing the claim that a turbo LS results in superior performance to a turbo GSR.
Shingo
Wow, great thread.
*Note* I am not disputing the fact that a B18b may be more boost friendly and "easier" to turbo. I am disputing the claim that a turbo LS results in superior performance to a turbo GSR.
Shingo
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
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To bengeeee:
Have you visted honda-tech FI forum? You can definitely find more usefull information overthere. There are knowledgable posters here, but the uneducated seem to outnumber the educated.
Also, newgsrdriver's post is good brief summary of the topic. Good luck doing your research.
Have you visted honda-tech FI forum? You can definitely find more usefull information overthere. There are knowledgable posters here, but the uneducated seem to outnumber the educated.
Also, newgsrdriver's post is good brief summary of the topic. Good luck doing your research.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,561
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From: Dallas
one reason why people say that the LS is safer to turbo than the GS-R is because the people dont get their cars tuned. except for maybe adding 7% more fuel across the board with their V-AFC. The LS lower compression ratio is more "idiot tuning" friendly, which is somethingi am sure kalaniocc has plenty of experience in.
i have two friends, one with a 98 GS turbo pushing 8 psi, tuned with hondata. the other has a 97 GS-R pushing 6.5 psi, also tuned with hondata. The GS puts 232 hp to the ground reliably, compared to the GS-R's 271. both spent about the same amount of money on their setups WITH tuning.
and one more thing NIXONride and kalaniocc, stop reading Import Tuner.
i have two friends, one with a 98 GS turbo pushing 8 psi, tuned with hondata. the other has a 97 GS-R pushing 6.5 psi, also tuned with hondata. The GS puts 232 hp to the ground reliably, compared to the GS-R's 271. both spent about the same amount of money on their setups WITH tuning.
and one more thing NIXONride and kalaniocc, stop reading Import Tuner.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 188
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From: Gaithersburg, MD
Thanks everyone. From what ive gathered so far.....
The ls is somewhat safer for the novice tuner and yields high gains but the gsr although misunderstood will still come out on top with identical setups. Although the ls can run higher boost relatively safely the gsr can run less boost with the same comfort level of stability and still yielding higher gains. It seems to me that anyone in the know would go with a gsr unless it has to do with insurance costs or initial buying price. I can not find any reason to not go with the gsr. As to the LS being safer. If your going to do something do it right. I cant see getting the LS and tuning it over the gsr just because i think it is safer to tune. If you do it right its not dangerouse at all. Thats kind of retarded in my view. I appreciate everyones input and although i still have some thinking to do i have gained a lot out of all of your knowledge (well maybe some of you anyway). Thanks again. Keep the posts coming. I still am curiouse what some of the other board members have to say. And anyone who actually has first hand experiance with these set ups please reply.
Ben
The ls is somewhat safer for the novice tuner and yields high gains but the gsr although misunderstood will still come out on top with identical setups. Although the ls can run higher boost relatively safely the gsr can run less boost with the same comfort level of stability and still yielding higher gains. It seems to me that anyone in the know would go with a gsr unless it has to do with insurance costs or initial buying price. I can not find any reason to not go with the gsr. As to the LS being safer. If your going to do something do it right. I cant see getting the LS and tuning it over the gsr just because i think it is safer to tune. If you do it right its not dangerouse at all. Thats kind of retarded in my view. I appreciate everyones input and although i still have some thinking to do i have gained a lot out of all of your knowledge (well maybe some of you anyway). Thanks again. Keep the posts coming. I still am curiouse what some of the other board members have to say. And anyone who actually has first hand experiance with these set ups please reply.
Ben
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Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Philly & MD
Originally posted by bengeeee
It seems to me that anyone in the know would go with a gsr unless it has to do with insurance costs or initial buying price. I can not find any reason to not go with the gsr. As to the LS being safer. If your going to do something do it right. I cant see getting the LS and tuning it over the gsr just because i think it is safer to tune. If you do it right its not dangerouse at all.
It seems to me that anyone in the know would go with a gsr unless it has to do with insurance costs or initial buying price. I can not find any reason to not go with the gsr. As to the LS being safer. If your going to do something do it right. I cant see getting the LS and tuning it over the gsr just because i think it is safer to tune. If you do it right its not dangerouse at all.
Colby
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,150
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From: Southeastern CT
Sounds like you've got a handle on it now 
I'd call around to your insurance and get other quotes too, you might not get hurt with a GSR.
I had an 01 LS, but traded up to an 00 Type R. My insurance went up $3 a month.
I'd call around to your insurance and get other quotes too, you might not get hurt with a GSR.I had an 01 LS, but traded up to an 00 Type R. My insurance went up $3 a month.
DeeCeeFo'
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,755
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From: Scranton PA
Originally posted by newgsrdriver
Exactly the same.
Ill give you a great reliable setup.
RevHard 2C Kit - $3000
Exhaust of your choice - $400
Hondata S200B (OBD1) - $450
DSM 450's w/resistors - $50
Tuning - $400
Bada bing. Figuring you push the envelope a bit on the LS, and stay conservative with the GSR, youre looking at a little over 4k for a competent setup that on a GSR can produce ~250whp/180tq @ 7PSI or ~220/170 @ 10PSI on an LS. That isnt factoring in clutch, LSD, suspension, etc...that would be the cost to get your turbo motor running smooth.
Ive seen as high as 260/220 @ 10PSI on an LS, and as high as 277/222 @ 7PSI on a GSR. Both of those are excellent #'s respectively keep in mind. Tuning is key though, those are peak #'s. Its where your power is in respect to the curve that counts.
Exactly the same.
Ill give you a great reliable setup.
RevHard 2C Kit - $3000
Exhaust of your choice - $400
Hondata S200B (OBD1) - $450
DSM 450's w/resistors - $50
Tuning - $400
Bada bing. Figuring you push the envelope a bit on the LS, and stay conservative with the GSR, youre looking at a little over 4k for a competent setup that on a GSR can produce ~250whp/180tq @ 7PSI or ~220/170 @ 10PSI on an LS. That isnt factoring in clutch, LSD, suspension, etc...that would be the cost to get your turbo motor running smooth.
Ive seen as high as 260/220 @ 10PSI on an LS, and as high as 277/222 @ 7PSI on a GSR. Both of those are excellent #'s respectively keep in mind. Tuning is key though, those are peak #'s. Its where your power is in respect to the curve that counts.
*NOTICE* The LS is running 260/220 @ 10PSI, and the GSR is running 277/222 @ 7PSI using your examples...
notice the torque numbers, although the GSR is running 17 more whp its running only 2 more lb/ft this is where my observation comes in, wouldn't it be true then that if both cars were running at the same PSI, proportionately the LS would be making more torque, am I correct?
This is what I and some others mentioned earlier, the LS is a more torquey engine and will again, "proportionately" run higher torque numbers....where torque is what wins races....thats all, just wanted that to be specifically mentioned for the benefit of the original thread starter...
DISCLAIMER: I don't mean because the LS is more torquey it will be the one to win these races, for those that are a little more violent in their responses in defense of the GSR....hope that helps some more dude. Peace.