Horsepower is great, but the mark of a great engine is one that can put out fairly equal numbers. Horsepower doesn't tell the whole story. Horsepower, say boosted horsepower, will win a short race from a roll maybe but in road racing or from a stop where forward bite (torque) is needed, it has been proven to be the ticket time after time. But, you can't make torque without the horsepower.

Look at the Mustang for example, the GT has 260 horsepower (which isn't really that much) but it puts out 302 lb/ft of torque which is what makes it quick. There are bolt ons to increase the power, but increasing the torque numbers is how to make a strong car that can pass ANYWHERE, uphill or down.

 

My ~3600 pound car with 315-320 RWHP and 340 lb-ft will will destroy a ~3600 pound car with 320 RWHP and 275 lb-ft. Peak horsepower is nothing but a number. You need area under the curve, and this is attained through higher torque.

 

If I'm not mistaken, torque is horsepower divided by time... so in other words horsepower is the maximum amount of power and torque is how long it takes to get there.

I'm just pulling this off of the top of my head so I might be wrong.

 

Relax people... I just said that to f^ck with Fast-ford. What is better depends on the type of racing. Besides, we all know not any one number, be it horsepower or torque or even power to weight ratio, decides the outcome of any race.

Justin, (torque x rpms)/5252 is the formula for horsepower. You can compensate for low torque numbers by having a high reving engine. Just look at the redline on the Type R and S2000.

 

a flatter torque curve in general is more desireable.
more torque at one point in the powerband is very inefficient
DOHC VTEC motors have some of the flattest curves in production right now.

~boom

 

acctually horsepower = torque x (rpm/5250)
and the reason they made this horsepower caculation is ebcasue it measure the cars ability to accelrate the fastest wtih the right gearing. It does not factor in weight but a 2 cars that both weigh 2000lbs one wtih 200hp and 150 lbs torque the other with 150 hp and 200 blbs of torque if both were geared as best as possible the 200 hp car would win it is about the horsepower as long as gearing is tuned to it

 

Exactly. You have to take a look at the overal picture when making an engine modification to see how the whole curve is affected. The only place where having a big lump of torque on a street car might be nice is down on the lower end.

The whole issue of torque is why I think superchargers and turbo are the biggest waste of money. I think they are more of the finishing touch for an already strong engine moreso than an addition to a stock motor. Don't get me wrong, they make your car fly, but for the money that it would cost to supercharge or put a turbo on a car, it makes more sense to go with a bigger engine. What are the price differences on this for a Honda? I have no idea what the 6 cyl engine costs. For Mustangs, the cost of supercharging is challenged by the price of a new crate engine that can take way more abuse.

 

yes a hybrid engine setup or at least a swap is almost always required to make a honda very very fast. this is not including turbo, SC, nitrous
im talking all motor

a EG civic hatch (92-95) with an h22a motor swap is going to be damn close to high 13's out of the box with no real mods other than dropping in the motor. thats pretty damn good for a 2000 dollar swap whereas an entry level turbo kit is usually a little more expensive and of course more dangerous. the h22 will take 200k miles of abuse if properly cared for.

~boom

 

Forced induction works all too well, because it increases the amount of torque available at high rpms. Engines have an "optimum operating range", determined by the size of the cams and the flow characteristics of the head.

Since your car acclerates at the level of torque, and racing involves high RPMS, you want lots of it at high rpms, and boost is an easier way of doing this than swapping engines.

You are correct about swapping, but there's a size limit to what a car nowadays can accept. I'd love to stick the twin turbo audi V8 into my jetta, but we can't win them all. Boosting what you've got, then becomes the answer.

 

u forget that hondas are like legos
or at least thats my analogy

unlike a VW
swapping a bigger motor (ie. a V6) is not the best route to go
this is because honda inline 4's make more power than their V6 counterparts
i saw a LS-Vtec civic hatch run a 14.1 at the track the other day, granted it was spoon powered but thats not at all bad for a small displacement 4 cylinder.

the main point is power to weight.
you could have gobs of torque in your 3600 lb camaro or mustang
but when matched with a 2400 lb civic with 200 HP and 161 TQ (h22 swap) the math makes my case

most of the late model Z28's and camaro SS's i saw at the track were running consistent mid 14's with an occasional low 14
there were 5.7's and 4.6's running some good times under 13 but those guys obviously had more serious engine mods.
unfortunately the condition of the track was also playing a role in the performance of everyone there, so i would take a few tenths off those times i quoted. the launchpad was ****ed up concrete with gravel scattered on it, and every time a pro-stock or top fuel car was staging ahead of me, the front of my car got pelted with gravel.
and the evo 7 that was there bested at 14.1 with the spoon LS-Vtec civi.
all in all it was a humbling experience for the handful of people that were there, especially when this dude with a fairlady 300ZX showed up an ran a startling 11.7 at 130ish.

~boom