Converting from coaxial to component (interesting question)
09-19-2002, 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by Ochdx
Well, if you're familiar with civic coupes (92-95), you know that front speakers are mounted in the door panels all the way on the bottom, while the rear speakers are mounted on the rear deck, on about the ear level. what happens is, the tweeter in the front speakers being on the bottom is not heard as well as the one on the rear speakers, and while the overall quality is great, it appears like the sound if coming from the rear. To my knowledge bass is non direction, and its the tweets that make the difference, so i was thinking about installing a pair of tweets on the side mirror panels, like most luxury cars have, I think it would create a nice balance.
Well, if you're familiar with civic coupes (92-95), you know that front speakers are mounted in the door panels all the way on the bottom, while the rear speakers are mounted on the rear deck, on about the ear level. what happens is, the tweeter in the front speakers being on the bottom is not heard as well as the one on the rear speakers, and while the overall quality is great, it appears like the sound if coming from the rear. To my knowledge bass is non direction, and its the tweets that make the difference, so i was thinking about installing a pair of tweets on the side mirror panels, like most luxury cars have, I think it would create a nice balance.
A tutorial section written by Steve Head (audionutz) who is highly respected. Those articles will give you a better idea of what imaging and staging really are, and some ways that they are achieved in a car.
To sum up what he says, anything down to 150Hz is very localizable...meaning the position of drivers that play those frequencies are very important. this means both the mid and tweeter on those co-axes
Any one who says that bass isn't localizable has never heard a car with a sub in the dash...it's truely amazing. You can use a rear mounted sub and still get "up-front bass" but it's more difficult, and takes a lot of tuning.
Listen to arch....if you really want to get staging and imaging from your current setup, take the speakers you have in the front doors and put them in kick panels...this will do a ton of good things for you. Adding tweeters up high will not fix your imaging problem (alot of which has to do with the fact that you have rear speakers)
Stock locations are no good (no matter what the location) to get a good image from your speakers.
09-19-2002, 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Ochdx
Well, if you're familiar with civic coupes (92-95), you know that front speakers are mounted in the door panels all the way on the bottom, while the rear speakers are mounted on the rear deck, on about the ear level. what happens is, the tweeter in the front speakers being on the bottom is not heard as well as the one on the rear speakers, and while the overall quality is great, it appears like the sound if coming from the rear. To my knowledge bass is non direction, and its the tweets that make the difference, so i was thinking about installing a pair of tweets on the side mirror panels, like most luxury cars have, I think it would create a nice balance.
Well, if you're familiar with civic coupes (92-95), you know that front speakers are mounted in the door panels all the way on the bottom, while the rear speakers are mounted on the rear deck, on about the ear level. what happens is, the tweeter in the front speakers being on the bottom is not heard as well as the one on the rear speakers, and while the overall quality is great, it appears like the sound if coming from the rear. To my knowledge bass is non direction, and its the tweets that make the difference, so i was thinking about installing a pair of tweets on the side mirror panels, like most luxury cars have, I think it would create a nice balance.
rcurley is exactly right on this one. Steve Head also knows his stuff with a National Title under his belt and a 5th gen Civic coupe as well. I dont think you are going to do the extensive custom fabrication work that such cars involve, but the most ideal and realistic solution would be kick panels.
Honestly tweeters in the side mirror panels wont improve anything in this car, especially if they are directed towards the listener it wouldnt improve imaging, it may raise the front staging slightly. Simply angling a set of tweeters from the lower door location would have the same effect as putting them in the mirror panels. Go with a set of kick panels.
09-19-2002, 09:24 PM
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arch-iceman....
Do you know what signal processing that Steve uses in the civic...his path lengths are SO far off with the current setup....he's going 4 way for sq and the extra is for SPL?!?! I'm guessing the Adioms, 4", 6", 8 or 10"s in the kicks....then a slew of OZ 12"s....probably just for SPL. Either way his fabrication skills are out of this world
BTW, have you been competing over the last two years?? What class/division? Not trying to get trade secrets, just trying to meet more competitors....I've been looking at the SBN and Finals cds from MEI trying to get some ideas....
Sorry to go off topic on this thread....but like we all said, if you want imaging, work on your pathlengths and your angles.
Do you know what signal processing that Steve uses in the civic...his path lengths are SO far off with the current setup....he's going 4 way for sq and the extra is for SPL?!?! I'm guessing the Adioms, 4", 6", 8 or 10"s in the kicks....then a slew of OZ 12"s....probably just for SPL. Either way his fabrication skills are out of this world
BTW, have you been competing over the last two years?? What class/division? Not trying to get trade secrets, just trying to meet more competitors....I've been looking at the SBN and Finals cds from MEI trying to get some ideas....
Sorry to go off topic on this thread....but like we all said, if you want imaging, work on your pathlengths and your angles.
09-19-2002, 09:46 PM
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rcurley55
I have no idea what Steve is doing in his curruent setup. I think the last time I saw him he was still using Focals for his front stage, and I cant remember what kind of processing he was using.
He's got good fabrication skills. Great work on the sub enclosure and trunk. The dash is nice, but SQ function before any form in this case. Dont get me wrong, I give the guy alot of credit for driving a car with a dash like that.
I used to kid him about it. The instrument cluster and steering wheel dont belong with his design. I used to tell him to tie it in better and make some changes.
His rear side panels needed some work last time I saw the car which was over a year ago. It could have been cleaner, but I think he ran out of time and took an easy way out fabricating them. He was begging me to tell him how mine were done.
I havent competed my Civic since 2000, I withdrew from the season early for family and personal reasons and I have been contemplating retiring the car. Its since been redesigned and rebuilt a few times, but not competed. I do have a few customers' cars Ive been competing with recently in local events. Nothing at the national level due to a tight personal schedule these days. Im kinda rusty at the national level, but I still collect 1st place trophies locally.
And stop stealing ideas.
I have no idea what Steve is doing in his curruent setup. I think the last time I saw him he was still using Focals for his front stage, and I cant remember what kind of processing he was using.
He's got good fabrication skills. Great work on the sub enclosure and trunk. The dash is nice, but SQ function before any form in this case. Dont get me wrong, I give the guy alot of credit for driving a car with a dash like that.
I used to kid him about it. The instrument cluster and steering wheel dont belong with his design. I used to tell him to tie it in better and make some changes. His rear side panels needed some work last time I saw the car which was over a year ago. It could have been cleaner, but I think he ran out of time and took an easy way out fabricating them. He was begging me to tell him how mine were done.
I havent competed my Civic since 2000, I withdrew from the season early for family and personal reasons and I have been contemplating retiring the car. Its since been redesigned and rebuilt a few times, but not competed. I do have a few customers' cars Ive been competing with recently in local events. Nothing at the national level due to a tight personal schedule these days. Im kinda rusty at the national level, but I still collect 1st place trophies locally.
And stop stealing ideas.
09-19-2002, 09:53 PM
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Here's the setup from the 2002 SBN's:
I don't think that the dash flows very well either...it's just not my style. I really liked Buwalda's 240...I think his interior "works" better...at least the dash does.
I like those side panels, and I was considering dumping either my Arcs or my 4 ID signal processors in the same spot....still trying to figure out the layout before I begin....
This next week I become the a/d/s/ guy...I have to finish my brother's trunk or he will kill me
Oh...and don't worry about me...I just a lowly street guy that dreams of competing in Ultimate....it's my first time around the block, and my first time with horns, so it should be.....well exciting/intersting.
Seeing as I'm not competition, wadda ya say you let me get a peek at your ride - remember you seasoned veterans are supposed to bring the "new blood" and better competition in!!! Ah hell, it was worth a shot!!
I don't think that the dash flows very well either...it's just not my style. I really liked Buwalda's 240...I think his interior "works" better...at least the dash does.
I like those side panels, and I was considering dumping either my Arcs or my 4 ID signal processors in the same spot....still trying to figure out the layout before I begin....
This next week I become the a/d/s/ guy...I have to finish my brother's trunk or he will kill me
Oh...and don't worry about me...I just a lowly street guy that dreams of competing in Ultimate....it's my first time around the block, and my first time with horns, so it should be.....well exciting/intersting.
Seeing as I'm not competition, wadda ya say you let me get a peek at your ride
- remember you seasoned veterans are supposed to bring the "new blood" and better competition in!!! Ah hell, it was worth a shot!!
09-19-2002, 10:39 PM
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I remeber making a deal with him. I would show him my secrets on my rear panels and help him fabricate something similar. In return he had to re-fabricate my door panels and detail my car before every show we were both at.
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