god
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
General
Trithemius: "our philosophy is celestial, not worldly, in order that we may faithfuly behold, by means of a direct intuition of the mind through faith and knowledge, that principle which we call God...."
Trithemius: "Study generates knowledge; knowledge prepares love; love, similarity; similarity, communion; communion, virtue; virtue, dignity; dignity, power; and power performs the miracle".
Newton "Inferior and superior, fixed and volatile, sulphur and quicksilver have a similar nature and are one thing, like man and wife. For they differ from one another only by degree of digestion and maturity. Sulphur is mature quicksilver, and quicksilver is immature sulphur: and on account of this affinity they unite like male and female, and they act on each other, and through that action they are mutually transmuted into each other and procreate a more noble offspring to accomplish the miracles of this one thing". "And just as all things were created from one Chaos by the design of one God, so in our art all things... are born from this one thing which is our Chaos, by the design of the Artificer and the skilful adaptation of things. And the generation of this is similar to the human, truly from a father and mother".
Blavatsky: the mysterious thing "is the universal, magical agent, the astral light, which in the correlations of its forces furnishes the alkahest, the philosopher's stone, and the elixir of life. Hermetic philosophy names it Azoth, the soul of the world, the celestial virgin, the great Magnes, etc" It appears to be that which gives organisation ("the maze of force-correlations"), and form i.e. the perfect geometry of snowflakes.
Sherwood Taylor: "the operation of the Sun.. was carried out by a ‘spirit', universal, the source of all things, having the power of perfecting them. Its virtue is integral [# 6a] (ie having the power to convert the diverse into a single substance), if it be turned into earth (ie. solidified). This conveyed that the Stone was to be a solidified pneuma. Pneuma was the link between earth and heaven, having the virtue of the celestial and subterranean regions- the power of the whole cosmos from the fixed stars to the centre of the earth. It overcomes every nature and penetrates every solid. It is the source of the whole world and so it can be the means of changing things in a wonderful way. The three parts of the philosophy of the whole world are presumably of the celestial, terrestrial, and subterranean regions".
Shah: The table is "the same as the Sufi dictum... ‘Man is the microcosm, creation the macrocosm - the unity. All comes from One. By the joining of the power of contemplation all can be attained. This essence must be separated from the body first, then combined with the body. This is the Work. Start with yourself, end with all. Before man, beyond man, transformation'".
A COMMENTARY OF IBN UMAIL
HERMUS said the secret of everything and the life of everything is Water.... This water becomes in wheat, ferment; in the vine, wine; in the olive, olive oil.... The begining of the child is from water.... Regarding this spiritual water and the sanctified and thirsty earth, HERMUS the great, crowned with the glorious wisdom and the sublime sciences, said [#1] Truth it is, indubtible, certain and correct, [#2] that the High is from the Low and the Low is from the High. They bring about wonders through the one, just as things are produced from that one essence by a single preparation. Later by his statement [#4] Its father is the Sun and its mother the Moon he meant their male and their female. They are the two birds which are linked together in the pictures given regarding the beginning of the operation, and from them the spiritual tinctures are produced. And similarly they are at the end of the operation. Later in his statement [#7 ?] the subtle is more honourable than the gross, he means by the subtle the divine spiritual water; and by the gross the earthly body. As for his later statement [#8] with gentleness and wisdom it will ascend from the earth to the sky, and will take fire from the higher lights, he means by this the distillation and the raising of the water into the air. As for his later statement [#8a] It will descend to the earth, containing the strength of the high and the low, he means by this the breathing in (istinshaq) of the air, and the taking of the spirit from it, and its subsequent elevation to the highest degree of heat, and it is the Fire, and the low is the body, and its content of the controlling earthly power which imparts the colours. For there lie in it those higher powers, as well as the earthly powers which were submerged in it.
The natural operation and decay causes it to be manifest, and hence the strength of the earth, and of the air, and of the higher fire passed in to it. Later he said [#9] it will overcome the high and the low because it in it is found the light of lights: and consequently the darkness will flee
from it. [See Stapleton et al. p 74, 81.]
APPENDIX
Translation from Roger Bacon's edition of Secretum Secretorum made c 1445
1)Trouth hath hym so, and it is no doubt,
2) that the lover is to the heigher, and the heigher to the lower aunsweren.
The worcher forsoth of all myracles is the one and sool God, of and fro Whom Cometh all meruelous operacions.
3) So all thynges were created of o soole substance, and of o soole disposicion,
4 ) the fader wherof is the sone, and the moone moder,
5) that brought hym forth by blast or aier in the wombe, the erthe taken fro it,
6) to whom is seid the increat fader, tresour of myracles, and yever of vertues.
7) Of fire is made erthe.
7a) Depart the erthe fro the fire, for the sotiller is worthier than the more grosse, and the thynne thynge than the thik. This most be do wisely and discretly.
8) It ascendith fro the erth into the heven, and falleth fro heven to the erthe, and therof sleith the higher and the lower vertue.
9)And yf it lordship in the lower and in the heigher, and thow shalt lordship aboue and beneth, which forsoth is the light of lightes, and therfor fro the wolle fle all derknesse.
10) The higher vertue ouer-cometh all, for sothe all thynne thyng doth in dense thynges.
11a) After the disposicion of the more world rynneth this worchyng.
13) And for this prophetisyng of the trynyte of God Hermogenes it called Triplex, trebil in philosophie, as Aristotle seith.
[See Manzalaoui 1977: 65 -6.]
Translation of same source, made c. 1485.
1) The trwthe is so, and that it is no dowght,
2) that lower thyngis to hyer thyng, and hyer to lower be correspondent. But the Werker of myraclis is on Godde alone, fro Home descendyth euiry meruulus werk.
3)And so alle thyngis be creat of one only substauns, be an only dysposicion,
4) of home the fadyr is the sonne, and the mone the modyr,
5 ) qwyche bar her be the wedyr in the wombe. The erthe is priuyd fro her-to.
6 )This is clepyd or seyd the fadyr of enchauntmentis, tresur of myracclys, the
yessuer of vertuys.
7) Be a lytil it is made erthe.
7a) Depart that qwyche is erthly fro that qwyche is fi Fry, for that qwyche is sotel is mor wurthy han that qwyche is grose, and that rar, porous, or lyght, is mor bettyr than qwiche is thyk of substauns. This is done wyseli or dyscretly.
8) It ascendyth fro the erth in-to heuyn and fallyth fro heuyn in-to erth, and ther-of it sleth the ouyr vertu and the nedyr vertu, so it hath lorchyp in the lowe thyngis and hye thingis,
9) and thu lordschyppist vppeward and downward, and with the is the lyght of lyghtys. And for that alle derkness schal fle fro the.
10) The ovyr vetu ouircomyth alle, for euiry rar rhyng werkyth in to euiry thyk thyng.
11a) And aftyr the dysposicion of the mor world rennyth thys werking.
13) And for that Hermogines is clepyd threfold in filosophye, and of the meruellys of he world.
[See Manzalaoui 1977: 174-5]
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Albertus Magnus, Book of Minerals, trans D. Wyckoff, OUP, 1967.
Anon Meditations on the Tarot. Amity House, 1985 pp21-6
Brann, N.L. "George Ripley and the Abbot Trithemius", Ambix, vol 26, no 3, pp 212- 220, 1979.
Blavatsky, H.P. Isis Unveiled. Theosophical University Press, 1972. pp 507-14.
Burckhardt, T. Alchemy. Stuart and Watkins, London 1967 pp 196 -201.
Davis, Tenny L. "The Emerald Tablet of Hermes Tristmegistus: Three Latin versions which were current among later Alchemists", Journal of Chemical Education, Vol.3, no.8, pp 863-75, 1926.
de Jong, H.M.E. Michael Maiers's Atlanta Fugiens: Sources of an alchemical Book of Emblems. E.J. Brill, Leiden, 1969.
Dobbs, B.J. "Newton's Commentary on the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus" in Merkel, I and Debus A.G. Hermeticism and the Renaissance. Folger, Washington 1988.
Fulcanelli. Les Demeures Philosophales. Jean Jacques Pavert, Paris, 1964.
Hall, M.P. The Secret Teachings of all Ages. Philosophical Research, L.A. 1977 pp CLVII -CLVIII.
Holmyard, E.J. "The Emerald Table" Nature, Oct 6th pp 525-6, 1929.
Holmyard, E.J. Alchemy, Pelican, Harmondsworth 1957. pp95-8.
Linden, Stanton J. ed. "The Mirror of Alchimy Composed by the Thrice-Famous and Learned Fryer Roger Bacon (1597), Garland, NY. 1992.
Manzalaoui, M.A. Secretum Secretorum: Nine English Versions, Early English Text Society. OUP, 1977.
Needham, J.Science and Civilisation in China vol 5, part 4: Spagyrical discovery and invention: Apparatus, Theories and gifts. CUP, 1980
Read, John Prelude to Chemistry, G Bell, London, 1939 pp15, 51-5
Redgrove, S. Alchemy: Ancient and Modern. William Rider, London, 1922. pp40-42.
Sadoul, J. Alchemists and Gold. G.P. Putnams, N.Y. 1972 pp 25-6.
Schumaker, Wayne. The Occult Sciences in the Renaissance. University of California, Berkely 1972, pp 179-80
Shah, Idres. The Sufis. Octagon, London 1977, p 198
Sherwood Taylor, F. The Alchemists. Paladin, London, 1976, pp77- 8.
Stapleton, H.E., Lewis, G.L, Sherwood Taylor, F. "The sayings of Hermes quoted in the Ma Al-Waraqi of Ibn Umail. " Ambix, vol 3, pp 69-90, 1949.
Steele, R. and Singer, D.W. "The Emerald Table". Proceedings of the Royal Society of Medicine vol 21, 1928.
See also:
McLean, A & Tahil, P. Ampitheatre Engavings of Heinrich Kunrath. pp. 28, 73-6,
Anon, Secret Symbols of the Rosicrucians (i.e. Paul Allen A Christian Rosenkreutz Anthology, Steinerbooks, third edition pp228-30)
AMORC Supplementary Monograph: Hermetic Teachings RAD-13, Lecture Number 2, Inner hermetic teachings.
Trithemius: "our philosophy is celestial, not worldly, in order that we may faithfuly behold, by means of a direct intuition of the mind through faith and knowledge, that principle which we call God...."
Trithemius: "Study generates knowledge; knowledge prepares love; love, similarity; similarity, communion; communion, virtue; virtue, dignity; dignity, power; and power performs the miracle".
Newton "Inferior and superior, fixed and volatile, sulphur and quicksilver have a similar nature and are one thing, like man and wife. For they differ from one another only by degree of digestion and maturity. Sulphur is mature quicksilver, and quicksilver is immature sulphur: and on account of this affinity they unite like male and female, and they act on each other, and through that action they are mutually transmuted into each other and procreate a more noble offspring to accomplish the miracles of this one thing". "And just as all things were created from one Chaos by the design of one God, so in our art all things... are born from this one thing which is our Chaos, by the design of the Artificer and the skilful adaptation of things. And the generation of this is similar to the human, truly from a father and mother".
Blavatsky: the mysterious thing "is the universal, magical agent, the astral light, which in the correlations of its forces furnishes the alkahest, the philosopher's stone, and the elixir of life. Hermetic philosophy names it Azoth, the soul of the world, the celestial virgin, the great Magnes, etc" It appears to be that which gives organisation ("the maze of force-correlations"), and form i.e. the perfect geometry of snowflakes.
Sherwood Taylor: "the operation of the Sun.. was carried out by a ‘spirit', universal, the source of all things, having the power of perfecting them. Its virtue is integral [# 6a] (ie having the power to convert the diverse into a single substance), if it be turned into earth (ie. solidified). This conveyed that the Stone was to be a solidified pneuma. Pneuma was the link between earth and heaven, having the virtue of the celestial and subterranean regions- the power of the whole cosmos from the fixed stars to the centre of the earth. It overcomes every nature and penetrates every solid. It is the source of the whole world and so it can be the means of changing things in a wonderful way. The three parts of the philosophy of the whole world are presumably of the celestial, terrestrial, and subterranean regions".
Shah: The table is "the same as the Sufi dictum... ‘Man is the microcosm, creation the macrocosm - the unity. All comes from One. By the joining of the power of contemplation all can be attained. This essence must be separated from the body first, then combined with the body. This is the Work. Start with yourself, end with all. Before man, beyond man, transformation'".
A COMMENTARY OF IBN UMAIL
HERMUS said the secret of everything and the life of everything is Water.... This water becomes in wheat, ferment; in the vine, wine; in the olive, olive oil.... The begining of the child is from water.... Regarding this spiritual water and the sanctified and thirsty earth, HERMUS the great, crowned with the glorious wisdom and the sublime sciences, said [#1] Truth it is, indubtible, certain and correct, [#2] that the High is from the Low and the Low is from the High. They bring about wonders through the one, just as things are produced from that one essence by a single preparation. Later by his statement [#4] Its father is the Sun and its mother the Moon he meant their male and their female. They are the two birds which are linked together in the pictures given regarding the beginning of the operation, and from them the spiritual tinctures are produced. And similarly they are at the end of the operation. Later in his statement [#7 ?] the subtle is more honourable than the gross, he means by the subtle the divine spiritual water; and by the gross the earthly body. As for his later statement [#8] with gentleness and wisdom it will ascend from the earth to the sky, and will take fire from the higher lights, he means by this the distillation and the raising of the water into the air. As for his later statement [#8a] It will descend to the earth, containing the strength of the high and the low, he means by this the breathing in (istinshaq) of the air, and the taking of the spirit from it, and its subsequent elevation to the highest degree of heat, and it is the Fire, and the low is the body, and its content of the controlling earthly power which imparts the colours. For there lie in it those higher powers, as well as the earthly powers which were submerged in it.
The natural operation and decay causes it to be manifest, and hence the strength of the earth, and of the air, and of the higher fire passed in to it. Later he said [#9] it will overcome the high and the low because it in it is found the light of lights: and consequently the darkness will flee
from it. [See Stapleton et al. p 74, 81.]
APPENDIX
Translation from Roger Bacon's edition of Secretum Secretorum made c 1445
1)Trouth hath hym so, and it is no doubt,
2) that the lover is to the heigher, and the heigher to the lower aunsweren.
The worcher forsoth of all myracles is the one and sool God, of and fro Whom Cometh all meruelous operacions.
3) So all thynges were created of o soole substance, and of o soole disposicion,
4 ) the fader wherof is the sone, and the moone moder,
5) that brought hym forth by blast or aier in the wombe, the erthe taken fro it,
6) to whom is seid the increat fader, tresour of myracles, and yever of vertues.
7) Of fire is made erthe.
7a) Depart the erthe fro the fire, for the sotiller is worthier than the more grosse, and the thynne thynge than the thik. This most be do wisely and discretly.
8) It ascendith fro the erth into the heven, and falleth fro heven to the erthe, and therof sleith the higher and the lower vertue.
9)And yf it lordship in the lower and in the heigher, and thow shalt lordship aboue and beneth, which forsoth is the light of lightes, and therfor fro the wolle fle all derknesse.
10) The higher vertue ouer-cometh all, for sothe all thynne thyng doth in dense thynges.
11a) After the disposicion of the more world rynneth this worchyng.
13) And for this prophetisyng of the trynyte of God Hermogenes it called Triplex, trebil in philosophie, as Aristotle seith.
[See Manzalaoui 1977: 65 -6.]
Translation of same source, made c. 1485.
1) The trwthe is so, and that it is no dowght,
2) that lower thyngis to hyer thyng, and hyer to lower be correspondent. But the Werker of myraclis is on Godde alone, fro Home descendyth euiry meruulus werk.
3)And so alle thyngis be creat of one only substauns, be an only dysposicion,
4) of home the fadyr is the sonne, and the mone the modyr,
5 ) qwyche bar her be the wedyr in the wombe. The erthe is priuyd fro her-to.
6 )This is clepyd or seyd the fadyr of enchauntmentis, tresur of myracclys, the
yessuer of vertuys.
7) Be a lytil it is made erthe.
7a) Depart that qwyche is erthly fro that qwyche is fi Fry, for that qwyche is sotel is mor wurthy han that qwyche is grose, and that rar, porous, or lyght, is mor bettyr than qwiche is thyk of substauns. This is done wyseli or dyscretly.
8) It ascendyth fro the erth in-to heuyn and fallyth fro heuyn in-to erth, and ther-of it sleth the ouyr vertu and the nedyr vertu, so it hath lorchyp in the lowe thyngis and hye thingis,
9) and thu lordschyppist vppeward and downward, and with the is the lyght of lyghtys. And for that alle derkness schal fle fro the.
10) The ovyr vetu ouircomyth alle, for euiry rar rhyng werkyth in to euiry thyk thyng.
11a) And aftyr the dysposicion of the mor world rennyth thys werking.
13) And for that Hermogines is clepyd threfold in filosophye, and of the meruellys of he world.
[See Manzalaoui 1977: 174-5]
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Albertus Magnus, Book of Minerals, trans D. Wyckoff, OUP, 1967.
Anon Meditations on the Tarot. Amity House, 1985 pp21-6
Brann, N.L. "George Ripley and the Abbot Trithemius", Ambix, vol 26, no 3, pp 212- 220, 1979.
Blavatsky, H.P. Isis Unveiled. Theosophical University Press, 1972. pp 507-14.
Burckhardt, T. Alchemy. Stuart and Watkins, London 1967 pp 196 -201.
Davis, Tenny L. "The Emerald Tablet of Hermes Tristmegistus: Three Latin versions which were current among later Alchemists", Journal of Chemical Education, Vol.3, no.8, pp 863-75, 1926.
de Jong, H.M.E. Michael Maiers's Atlanta Fugiens: Sources of an alchemical Book of Emblems. E.J. Brill, Leiden, 1969.
Dobbs, B.J. "Newton's Commentary on the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus" in Merkel, I and Debus A.G. Hermeticism and the Renaissance. Folger, Washington 1988.
Fulcanelli. Les Demeures Philosophales. Jean Jacques Pavert, Paris, 1964.
Hall, M.P. The Secret Teachings of all Ages. Philosophical Research, L.A. 1977 pp CLVII -CLVIII.
Holmyard, E.J. "The Emerald Table" Nature, Oct 6th pp 525-6, 1929.
Holmyard, E.J. Alchemy, Pelican, Harmondsworth 1957. pp95-8.
Linden, Stanton J. ed. "The Mirror of Alchimy Composed by the Thrice-Famous and Learned Fryer Roger Bacon (1597), Garland, NY. 1992.
Manzalaoui, M.A. Secretum Secretorum: Nine English Versions, Early English Text Society. OUP, 1977.
Needham, J.Science and Civilisation in China vol 5, part 4: Spagyrical discovery and invention: Apparatus, Theories and gifts. CUP, 1980
Read, John Prelude to Chemistry, G Bell, London, 1939 pp15, 51-5
Redgrove, S. Alchemy: Ancient and Modern. William Rider, London, 1922. pp40-42.
Sadoul, J. Alchemists and Gold. G.P. Putnams, N.Y. 1972 pp 25-6.
Schumaker, Wayne. The Occult Sciences in the Renaissance. University of California, Berkely 1972, pp 179-80
Shah, Idres. The Sufis. Octagon, London 1977, p 198
Sherwood Taylor, F. The Alchemists. Paladin, London, 1976, pp77- 8.
Stapleton, H.E., Lewis, G.L, Sherwood Taylor, F. "The sayings of Hermes quoted in the Ma Al-Waraqi of Ibn Umail. " Ambix, vol 3, pp 69-90, 1949.
Steele, R. and Singer, D.W. "The Emerald Table". Proceedings of the Royal Society of Medicine vol 21, 1928.
See also:
McLean, A & Tahil, P. Ampitheatre Engavings of Heinrich Kunrath. pp. 28, 73-6,
Anon, Secret Symbols of the Rosicrucians (i.e. Paul Allen A Christian Rosenkreutz Anthology, Steinerbooks, third edition pp228-30)
AMORC Supplementary Monograph: Hermetic Teachings RAD-13, Lecture Number 2, Inner hermetic teachings.
Rotorphile.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,120
Likes: 0
From: Richmond, VA
Originally posted by 18secFerio
if this is really how you feel, I feel sorry for you. Your life must be really empty.
if this is really how you feel, I feel sorry for you. Your life must be really empty.
Originally posted by 18secFerio
If you beleive in coincidence, then you beleive in God. You just don't relize it. Look at the problem from another angle.
If you beleive in coincidence, then you beleive in God. You just don't relize it. Look at the problem from another angle.
Originally posted by 18secFerio
outdated? you must not be reading my posts.
religion as a secular beleive, I'll agree, is lame. I will probably rarly go to church for the rest of my life, and if I do, it will be for weddings, funerals, things of that sort.
outdated? you must not be reading my posts.
religion as a secular beleive, I'll agree, is lame. I will probably rarly go to church for the rest of my life, and if I do, it will be for weddings, funerals, things of that sort.
Originally posted by 18secFerio
you, my friend, have shown your ignorance for A) not recognizing a higher idea, therefor thinking only YOU matter, and B) again, not reading my posts.
you, my friend, have shown your ignorance for A) not recognizing a higher idea, therefor thinking only YOU matter, and B) again, not reading my posts.
Originally posted by 18secFerio
how nice of you to quote a man whoes form of government failed. Anything else?
how nice of you to quote a man whoes form of government failed. Anything else?
Marxism did not fail, it was taken over by Stalinist beaurocrats.
Stalinism then proceeded to fail, mostly because of the incredible cost of the Cold War. That's right, the United States basically ran them out of business, funny how that works.
So, how about a qoute from a very successful lawyer?
"I don't believe in God because I don't believe in Mother Goose." - Clarence Darrow
Maybe a Founding Father?
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Maybe even a former clergyman?
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." - Delos B. McKown
Late addition:
Originally posted by 18secFerio
communism only works A) on paper B) in small groups.
communism only works A) on paper B) in small groups.
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
Originally posted by sxecrow
Bite me
h: I love that band.
Bite me
h: I love that band.
but I put punk behind me......
Are you saying you're infused with the spiral? THERE CAN BE NO ORDER!! ONLY CHAOS!!! :chuckles:
oh yea, I have both VHS and Divx, by the way ... But I'm sure you've assumed that by now.
oh yea, I have both VHS and Divx, by the way ... But I'm sure you've assumed that by now.
and I am infused with the spiral
Banned
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,058
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
Originally posted by 18secFerio
not by how you're posting on here. I dunno, maybe I saw more in it, maybe I saw too much. But that movie I thought was dead on.
and I am infused with the spiral
not by how you're posting on here. I dunno, maybe I saw more in it, maybe I saw too much. But that movie I thought was dead on.
and I am infused with the spiral
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
Originally posted by Kai
I still fail to see why people think those that do not beleive in religion as having shallow or empty lives.
I still fail to see why people think those that do not beleive in religion as having shallow or empty lives.
thats like trying to breath without air.
So I don't beleive there is an amazing power ruling over all of us, does that make me a bad person?
Last time I checked, no. If you seriously beleive that the non-religious are that hopeless, you're missing out on meeting a lot of perfectly nice and intelligent peole.
I beleive in coincidence, it's called statistical probability.
That's real life math, not God wiggling his nose and saving your car from getting a dent.
unfortunatly, math is cold. Math doesn't really give us answers, it just adds and subtracts.
I never said God wiggled his nose, I never even said God has a nose.
and I think dents in the car, theft, and other such good and bad things that happen in your life are Karma.
I am reading your posts, and it's all lame. All religion, that is.
It keeps evolving and reinventing itself throughout history, and today's religion is pretty much the leftovers of the Protestant Reformation. Pretty outdated if you ask me.
What about video games? Lets see, pretty much every game made today isn't anything better than before. Sure, the graphics improve, there's more interactivity in the enviorment, but the gerneral idea remains.
as far as religion being protestant, you must have issues with chirstianity. I doubt the muslims had anything to do with the protestants (and ironiclly enough, theres not much difference between jews, christians, and muslims, but they all fight anyways).
I recognize the idea, but I don't beleive it.
I guess a what I consider a debate, you consider someone showing ignorance.
I fail to see where the "thinking only YOU" matter comes in, I think of everything that is real. People are real, trees are real, cars are real. God is not.
see, your veiws are flawed. You don't want to beleive in God because maybe the idea scares you, maybe you're not comfortable in death. Point is, people like you exist, and they grow up to be cold, self-serving, and inconsiderate. Maybe I'm doing you some good.
The failure of Marxism has nothing to do with the matter at hand,
I figured you where enlightened enough to realize that. Maybe if Lenin didn't die so soon after the Revolution, there would have been no problem.
Marxism did not fail, it was taken over by Stalinist beaurocrats.
you know, the things that make up this country.
Stalinism then proceeded to fail, mostly because of the incredible cost of the Cold War. That's right, the United States basically ran them out of business, funny how that works.
So, how about a qoute from a very successful lawyer?
"I don't believe in God because I don't believe in Mother Goose." - Clarence Darrow
"I don't believe in God because I don't believe in Mother Goose." - Clarence Darrow
Maybe a Founding Father?
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Maybe even a former clergyman?
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." - Delos B. McKown
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." - Delos B. McKown
Late addition:
Congrats, you have been completely brainwashed by your government.
Congrats, you have been completely brainwashed by your government.
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
Originally posted by sxecrow
how so?
how so?
I'm not quite sure. Its just, when I first saw it, I knew it was right. The fact that it shows correlation, that its not just one-sided, that it gives good and bad equil representation, and it shows that not only are the corperations/governments wrong, but so are religions.
I think there's something strange about the circle. There's no defined edges like every other shape (circle is including ovals and everything 'round', spirals, etc). Pi is a weird formula, there's still no end to it, even though we've got it in the billions of decimal points beyond 0. Actually, I think pi either ends in 3, 1, or the time from the beginig to the end. I really do think there's something more within it.
The films depiction of circles and spirals was dead on. They're everywhere, they're everything, and all of it togeather, both good and bad, is God, which the movie preached. Also, the way the main charactor goes about his path in the film is one I can kinda associate with.
I've lead a rather interesting, random, often eerily coincidental life. I look at the clock, I see a number, like 12:34, and associate it with 1, 2, 3, 4. I hear a train horm blare when I'm thinking, often highlighting a great thought. The poetry I write just seems to flow from the pen, yet makes sense, and is still original in thought and design. I understand the art of balance very well, I'm very good at recongnizing the good in people, how little they may have, and I'm a very fair person. I don't take advantage of situations and people for self gain, I'm morally sound, and I still smoke weed.
bottom line, I'm borederline insane. I draw too many connections with things to be heathy for my own good, but A) I'm drawn to it, and B) It has to be for a reason.
Life is a story already lived, we've been here and done this before, we'll do this again, and never even know it. Its constantly repeating, intensifying each time around, until one day *poof* something bigger happens.
Life is alot like love; it begins somewhere, and it ends somewhere. God is love, love is art, art is life.
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
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From: San Antonio, Texas
Originally posted by Kai
Congrats, you have been completely brainwashed by your government.
Congrats, you have been completely brainwashed by your government.
communism has only worked in one place. A small group of bishops practice it in their little commun. I think in south america?
so because I beleive in a God above, even one I repeatidly say is a non-convenional one, and because I think communism was a flop, I'm brainwashed by good ol dubya and his team of neo-conartists.
please. I think you're trying to be hip by saying "there is no god because you can't prove it."
so what, you can't really prove evolution, but to say that doesn't exist is stupid. We keep uncovering fossils of anchient man, we see 14 similar birds with different traits on one island. I totally beleive in it.
or maybe the big bang. Can't really prove it, but it makes sense.
God said "let there be light" BOOOOM, big bang.
why can't science and religion put those togeather?
Banned
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,058
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From: Tampa, FL
I'm going to quote a part from the movie Red Planet:
"I think you're just ignoring the facts. Im a geneticist. I write code - A, G, T, P .. in different combinations - hacking the human genome. OK? I choose what, I choose where and either your kidneys work or you grow a 6th finger. I DO THAT. Now you spot God, you let me know. Until then ... I'll trust my Ph.D's."
"I think you're just ignoring the facts. Im a geneticist. I write code - A, G, T, P .. in different combinations - hacking the human genome. OK? I choose what, I choose where and either your kidneys work or you grow a 6th finger. I DO THAT. Now you spot God, you let me know. Until then ... I'll trust my Ph.D's."
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 255
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oh man, I cna't read all you guys copy pasted. Have to goto work tomrrow. But some things just want to point out:
- God in human-like shape is only a Christian concept IMO. Islam doesn't have a figure ANYWHERE of God(Allah). Budha isn't worshipped, but admired and followed to get to better "realisation", but he life style was never meant to be followed.
- Judiasm lead to Christianity lead to Islam (at least islamic point of view). Islam being final religion until D-day (because other religions have been changed - no original text / language avaialble)
But all three above religions are considered true religions in Islam.
- As someone point out earlier (vaguly), we are not smart enough to comprehend God, but that does not mean IT does't exist
- There is a famous astronomy theory (i think called Universal theory...not proven yet), that if all forces are added of universe, it will become 0, which it was before big bang.
In other words, there was nothingness before big bang. You cannot have everything u observe if there hasn't been any intervention in this nothingness
- Your consiousness - that you can think if God existed or not - is proof by itself. Chemicals / biology mixing and creating new matter, changing shape, etc does not give this new matter ability to think. You can think, there must be more to it, than science.
- I consider myself good Muslim, yet the rules i follow in my life are MY JUDGEMENT / LOGIC (which sometime conflict with traditional islam). The truest and purest religion is common sense. Although guidance is acquired from Islamic principles.
Anyway, enough of my biased views ;-)
I don't mean to argue anyone, just throwing my ideas. Thanx
- God in human-like shape is only a Christian concept IMO. Islam doesn't have a figure ANYWHERE of God(Allah). Budha isn't worshipped, but admired and followed to get to better "realisation", but he life style was never meant to be followed.
- Judiasm lead to Christianity lead to Islam (at least islamic point of view). Islam being final religion until D-day (because other religions have been changed - no original text / language avaialble)
But all three above religions are considered true religions in Islam.
- As someone point out earlier (vaguly), we are not smart enough to comprehend God, but that does not mean IT does't exist
- There is a famous astronomy theory (i think called Universal theory...not proven yet), that if all forces are added of universe, it will become 0, which it was before big bang.
In other words, there was nothingness before big bang. You cannot have everything u observe if there hasn't been any intervention in this nothingness
- Your consiousness - that you can think if God existed or not - is proof by itself. Chemicals / biology mixing and creating new matter, changing shape, etc does not give this new matter ability to think. You can think, there must be more to it, than science.
- I consider myself good Muslim, yet the rules i follow in my life are MY JUDGEMENT / LOGIC (which sometime conflict with traditional islam). The truest and purest religion is common sense. Although guidance is acquired from Islamic principles.
Anyway, enough of my biased views ;-)
I don't mean to argue anyone, just throwing my ideas. Thanx
