Empire falls
I need sleep...
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From: NH
Originally posted by qtiger
You may recall some other countries that participated in defeating Germany and Japan during WWII... I tend to call them "the allies"
Perhaps you forget that whole east/west germany business, and how we divided their country up amongst the victors?
I honestly didn't think anyone swallowed that entire load of bullcrap. Thank you for reducing my faith in humanity.
You may recall some other countries that participated in defeating Germany and Japan during WWII... I tend to call them "the allies"
Perhaps you forget that whole east/west germany business, and how we divided their country up amongst the victors?
I honestly didn't think anyone swallowed that entire load of bullcrap. Thank you for reducing my faith in humanity.
It is not bullcrap if you see the world for what it is.
I need sleep...
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From: NH
Originally posted by Sticky_D
There have been no links between Iraq and terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaida. Osama Bin Laden even denouced the secualr Baathi'st government of Saddam and called for Saddam to be overthrown by the muslims of Iraq. And aggressivly attacking any nations that could possbile pose a threat (something that the weak Iraq did very little of) to us or our allies in order to become an unchallenged power is quite Empire-esque.
The fact of the matter is that Iraq was a sorereign nation that we attacked unprovoked.
There have been no links between Iraq and terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaida. Osama Bin Laden even denouced the secualr Baathi'st government of Saddam and called for Saddam to be overthrown by the muslims of Iraq. And aggressivly attacking any nations that could possbile pose a threat (something that the weak Iraq did very little of) to us or our allies in order to become an unchallenged power is quite Empire-esque.
The fact of the matter is that Iraq was a sorereign nation that we attacked unprovoked.
And we captured a known terrorist that Saddam was harboring. I forget his name but he was the one that hijacked the Italian cruise ship and has been sent back to Italy for trial. And we have found many other terrorist training camps in Iraq.
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Originally posted by DVPGSR
And West Germany was divided between the US, French, and British sectors...but it still had one government. And that government was democratic and the people got to vote for their leaders.
It is not bullcrap if you see the world for what it is.
And West Germany was divided between the US, French, and British sectors...but it still had one government. And that government was democratic and the people got to vote for their leaders.
It is not bullcrap if you see the world for what it is.
It's not bullcrap... if you have the mentality of a elementary school bully. There are terroist cells and camps everywhere in the world. The terrorists involved in 9/11 got their flight training in the US.
Originally posted by DVPGSR
And we captured a known terrorist that Saddam was harboring. I forget his name but he was the one that hijacked the Italian cruise ship and has been sent back to Italy for trial. And we have found many other terrorist training camps in Iraq.
And we captured a known terrorist that Saddam was harboring. I forget his name but he was the one that hijacked the Italian cruise ship and has been sent back to Italy for trial. And we have found many other terrorist training camps in Iraq.
America, nation of hypocrites.
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From: 'Fleet
Originally posted by DVPGSR
To ignore the threat that Iraq was to the US, our allies (Israel most importantly), and his own neighbors is just plain ignorance.
And we captured a known terrorist that Saddam was harboring. I forget his name but he was the one that hijacked the Italian cruise ship and has been sent back to Italy for trial. And we have found many other terrorist training camps in Iraq.
To ignore the threat that Iraq was to the US, our allies (Israel most importantly), and his own neighbors is just plain ignorance.
And we captured a known terrorist that Saddam was harboring. I forget his name but he was the one that hijacked the Italian cruise ship and has been sent back to Italy for trial. And we have found many other terrorist training camps in Iraq.
Iraq was hardly a threat to anyone. Their military never recovered from the first gulf war, and the state of their entire nation was weak as a result of Sanctions. Saddam didn't have a death-wish, and wouldnt have attacked other nations (especially Isreal) for fear of international retaliation. Even domestic intelligance agencies said that Iraq would only be a threat if backed into a corner. If anything, Isreal is the biggest threat to stability in the Middle East and the biggest aggressor.
The Italian cruise ship Hijacker was released by Italy after the incident because they didnt have compelling evidence against him, he then moved freely from country to country in the area.
The supposed terrorist training camps were all in Northern Iraq no-fly zone, where the Kurds had control and the Iraqi authority had no power. Many of the suspected camp sites have been false, and the only training camps in the area are Kurdish Militia camps who strived to overthrow Iraq.
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: San Antonio, Texas
wow, this thread blew up....
ever get into drugs?
you have no idea how easy it is to get shit into this country. Especially through Mexico.
despite the stupidity of Sharon, I doubt isreal would ever use a nuke.
they don't even have any.
slightly more likely
another likelyhood.
but yet another person FORGOT ABOUT NORTH KOREA!!!!
the Euro already was above the US currency when it first came out.
but still, with over 6% unemployment, its no wonder the economy would be in a downfall.
you forgot the Spanish-American war.
Vietnam is also a great example.
both of these wars started over nothing. Well, they started over "something" but it later proved nothing.
Spanish-American war started because of the USS Maine blowing up. Guess who didn't do it: The spanish.
Vietnam started when some small (IE, fishing, PT) N vietnamese boats "attacked" a US destroyer. Guess what never happend.
The war against terrorism is such a bullshit statement.
before that, it was the war against drugs.
America is just looking for a way to police the world.
If you're too blind to realize this, then maybe you should be writing letters to the editor to your local paper, where people who are ultra-conservative, and think just like you, love to send their thoughts.
total concurance.
again, total concurance.
Originally posted by Sticky_D
They would have a hard time detonating a nuke insdie the US. These small radical factions don't own ICBM's, and would have a hell of a time smuggling a suitcase nuke, or something of the like into our borders.
They would have a hard time detonating a nuke insdie the US. These small radical factions don't own ICBM's, and would have a hell of a time smuggling a suitcase nuke, or something of the like into our borders.
you have no idea how easy it is to get shit into this country. Especially through Mexico.
I believe the main threat of nuclear war is from actual goverment establishments. Such as Isreal retaliating with their nuclear arsenal against some large scale attack
they don't even have any.
India and Pakistan launching at eachother,
or the US deploying some of the new mini tactical nukes in a coming war. Hell, the US is the only nation to have ever used Atomic/Nuclear weapons.
but yet another person FORGOT ABOUT NORTH KOREA!!!!
Originally posted by qtiger
We were discussing this same topic in my Advanced International Relations course. The EU is well prepared to outstrip the US, as is China.
Hell, the Euro is over the dollar. That means that it's no longer cheap to buy European products.
We were discussing this same topic in my Advanced International Relations course. The EU is well prepared to outstrip the US, as is China.
Hell, the Euro is over the dollar. That means that it's no longer cheap to buy European products.
but still, with over 6% unemployment, its no wonder the economy would be in a downfall.
Originally posted by Sticky_D
The Revolution, War of 1812, Vietnam, Desert Storm 1. Afghanistan
The Revolution, War of 1812, Vietnam, Desert Storm 1. Afghanistan
Vietnam is also a great example.
both of these wars started over nothing. Well, they started over "something" but it later proved nothing.
Spanish-American war started because of the USS Maine blowing up. Guess who didn't do it: The spanish.
Vietnam started when some small (IE, fishing, PT) N vietnamese boats "attacked" a US destroyer. Guess what never happend.
Originally posted by DVPGSR
Quite easily...it is all part of the ongoing War on Terrorism. That was was clearly defined and we would go after those that support terrorism or pose a threat to the US, our friends, and our allies!
Quite easily...it is all part of the ongoing War on Terrorism. That was was clearly defined and we would go after those that support terrorism or pose a threat to the US, our friends, and our allies!
before that, it was the war against drugs.
America is just looking for a way to police the world.
If you're too blind to realize this, then maybe you should be writing letters to the editor to your local paper, where people who are ultra-conservative, and think just like you, love to send their thoughts.
Originally posted by qtiger
Right, and there's a council of Iraqi leaders in Iraq... it just so happens they were hand-picked by Americans, and we have total veto power over any laws passed.
It's not bullcrap... if you have the mentality of a elementary school bully. There are terroist cells and camps everywhere in the world. The terrorists involved in 9/11 got their flight training in the US.
The United States gave asylum to countless people who had committed terrorist acts in communist states during the Cold War.
America, nation of hypocrites.
Right, and there's a council of Iraqi leaders in Iraq... it just so happens they were hand-picked by Americans, and we have total veto power over any laws passed.
It's not bullcrap... if you have the mentality of a elementary school bully. There are terroist cells and camps everywhere in the world. The terrorists involved in 9/11 got their flight training in the US.
The United States gave asylum to countless people who had committed terrorist acts in communist states during the Cold War.
America, nation of hypocrites.
Originally posted by Sticky_D
Iraq was hardly a threat to anyone. Their military never recovered from the first gulf war, and the state of their entire nation was weak as a result of Sanctions. Saddam didn't have a death-wish, and wouldnt have attacked other nations (especially Isreal) for fear of international retaliation. Even domestic intelligance agencies said that Iraq would only be a threat if backed into a corner. If anything, Isreal is the biggest threat to stability in the Middle East and the biggest aggressor.
The Italian cruise ship Hijacker was released by Italy after the incident because they didnt have compelling evidence against him, he then moved freely from country to country in the area.
The supposed terrorist training camps were all in Northern Iraq no-fly zone, where the Kurds had control and the Iraqi authority had no power. Many of the suspected camp sites have been false, and the only training camps in the area are Kurdish Militia camps who strived to overthrow Iraq.
Iraq was hardly a threat to anyone. Their military never recovered from the first gulf war, and the state of their entire nation was weak as a result of Sanctions. Saddam didn't have a death-wish, and wouldnt have attacked other nations (especially Isreal) for fear of international retaliation. Even domestic intelligance agencies said that Iraq would only be a threat if backed into a corner. If anything, Isreal is the biggest threat to stability in the Middle East and the biggest aggressor.
The Italian cruise ship Hijacker was released by Italy after the incident because they didnt have compelling evidence against him, he then moved freely from country to country in the area.
The supposed terrorist training camps were all in Northern Iraq no-fly zone, where the Kurds had control and the Iraqi authority had no power. Many of the suspected camp sites have been false, and the only training camps in the area are Kurdish Militia camps who strived to overthrow Iraq.
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From: 'Fleet
Originally posted by 18secFerio
despite the stupidity of Sharon, I doubt isreal would ever use a nuke.
they don't even have any.
[/B]
despite the stupidity of Sharon, I doubt isreal would ever use a nuke.
they don't even have any.
[/B]
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
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From: San Antonio, Texas
Originally posted by Sticky_D
Israel does have nukes. They're the only Middle Eastern Country with an arsenal
Israel does have nukes. They're the only Middle Eastern Country with an arsenal
they're the last country that needs that capability.
Anyone who is for the war against terrorism, take a good look at israels situation with palistine.
All those years of fighting, all those people dead, and neither side is innocent. Sure, they each have their reasons, and they each have their inaccuracies as far as their ideas go.
But you have one police power (ie, America) and you have one slightly displaced but never-yeilding power (al-queda). On and on as the years go by, each side makes their advances.
The terrorists kill some leaders, and take their tolls on the populous, while the police power kills the terrorists, sometimes taking out innocents along the way. We all know shit happens.
of course, the reality of the situation is this could have all be averted had someone on either side had the balls to say "ok, we'll talk"
it doesn't have to be the terrrorists, either. Usually, when someone thinks a cause is worth fighting for, chances are that is because it is worth dying for. Again, this works for both sides.
but lets look at the America/al queda situation:
Who's more advanced?
define advanced. Because of technology?
If we're truly advanced, we would try to work this out.
sadly, maybe we're not.
ch1x0r
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: PA
Originally posted by 18secFerio
you're looking at things too concretely. you need to think abstractly in order to see the pattern.
take movies for examples.
There's many movies with the same general priciple, and the same basic story line.
IE, Man falls for woman, conflict, tragity, Man overcomes this, happy ending.
What about Greek and Roman mythology. Their gods are pretty much the same thing. Hell, even their stories are almost identical. The names are one of the biggest differences.
Then there's religion. Christianity isn't much different than Islam, save for Jesus. And then theirs the Jewish faith which is similar as well. Doesn't help that they all stem from the same region and person. But all major religions preach the same basic messages.
look at sports and similar entertainment. Gladiators of Rome aren't much different than modern Basketball players, or boxers.
Then there's our lives, which depsite the many differences, are fairly similar.
The universe is a whole bunch of random shit, but there's a pattern that we can't see, and for those of us who can, it's still obscure. There's many corellations, and instances can carry over from one thing to another. IE, sound waves, light waves, waves of emotion, waves of sensation (touch). There all waves.
or another example, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Rome, Spain, England, France, Germany, Russia, America.
Up and down. Rise and fall. Wax and wane. High tide, low tide. Black and white. Good and evil. The nessisaries of life and the universe.
Begining, and then ending.
But the end leads to the begining all over again.
so with so much proof that things, ideas, and situations indeed repeat themselves, I think it would be foolish to say history doesn't repeat itself. Its just above us all. We can't comprehend it all. But I'm not saying its gonna be the same cycle all over again. It's just each time it gets more intense, and we hit a high water point. This is probably going to be it as far as the old way of thought. The fall of our empire will be the dawn of a new age in mankind.
you're looking at things too concretely. you need to think abstractly in order to see the pattern.
take movies for examples.
There's many movies with the same general priciple, and the same basic story line.
IE, Man falls for woman, conflict, tragity, Man overcomes this, happy ending.
What about Greek and Roman mythology. Their gods are pretty much the same thing. Hell, even their stories are almost identical. The names are one of the biggest differences.
Then there's religion. Christianity isn't much different than Islam, save for Jesus. And then theirs the Jewish faith which is similar as well. Doesn't help that they all stem from the same region and person. But all major religions preach the same basic messages.
look at sports and similar entertainment. Gladiators of Rome aren't much different than modern Basketball players, or boxers.
Then there's our lives, which depsite the many differences, are fairly similar.
The universe is a whole bunch of random shit, but there's a pattern that we can't see, and for those of us who can, it's still obscure. There's many corellations, and instances can carry over from one thing to another. IE, sound waves, light waves, waves of emotion, waves of sensation (touch). There all waves.
or another example, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Rome, Spain, England, France, Germany, Russia, America.
Up and down. Rise and fall. Wax and wane. High tide, low tide. Black and white. Good and evil. The nessisaries of life and the universe.
Begining, and then ending.
But the end leads to the begining all over again.
so with so much proof that things, ideas, and situations indeed repeat themselves, I think it would be foolish to say history doesn't repeat itself. Its just above us all. We can't comprehend it all. But I'm not saying its gonna be the same cycle all over again. It's just each time it gets more intense, and we hit a high water point. This is probably going to be it as far as the old way of thought. The fall of our empire will be the dawn of a new age in mankind.
my bum is on the swedish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
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From: San Antonio, Texas
oh yeah, forgot some shit....
total concurance
Again, look into The Emrerald Tablet. do a search on the net. Very interesting stuff as far as the world goes.
some info on it: It's tied into history. Alot. From Egypt to Alexander the Great to Moses and biblical reference to the Achemy experiemnts in the 14-16th century's. There's just a whole lot of cool weird stuff in it. Conicdence, all that.
I'm very serious about this. Anyone who agree's with some of my ideas would probably get a kick out of it.
Another thing I forgot. China cheated.
they closed off their market, or some shit like that. I can't remember offhand....
Al Queda attack the US for a few reasons, but the main of which has to do with a passage in the Koran.
In it, it speaks of how no two religions should control the holy land.
Or basiclly, US troops shouldn't be stationed in Saudi Arabia.
that is why Bin Laden resented us so much. And why were troops there? To control oil interests.
and that is why Bin Laden made the Fatwa or whatever they're called, when they "make a call for jahad!"
so basiclly, the war on terrorism starts and ends with us, or actually, the US
Originally posted by Whiskey Tango
think of all the curruption in this country. we are being stripped of our rIGHTS.....we cant say whatever we want, we cant have teh teck 9...yet we can sue a fast food company cuz we eat too much of thier food.
wow.
think of all the curruption in this country. we are being stripped of our rIGHTS.....we cant say whatever we want, we cant have teh teck 9...yet we can sue a fast food company cuz we eat too much of thier food.
wow.
Originally posted by CivicRacr
18secferio-
that was one long....thought. but it makes sense to me, everything has a ying and yang and an up and down like you said. i like to believe that everything happens for a reason and there has to be a reason for what is going on around the world, maybe for some greater good, who knows. ahh...i cant finish my thoughts, havent slept yet and gettin tired
18secferio-
that was one long....thought. but it makes sense to me, everything has a ying and yang and an up and down like you said. i like to believe that everything happens for a reason and there has to be a reason for what is going on around the world, maybe for some greater good, who knows. ahh...i cant finish my thoughts, havent slept yet and gettin tired
some info on it: It's tied into history. Alot. From Egypt to Alexander the Great to Moses and biblical reference to the Achemy experiemnts in the 14-16th century's. There's just a whole lot of cool weird stuff in it. Conicdence, all that.
I'm very serious about this. Anyone who agree's with some of my ideas would probably get a kick out of it.
Originally posted by qtiger
The EU is well prepared to outstrip the US, as is China.
The EU is well prepared to outstrip the US, as is China.
they closed off their market, or some shit like that. I can't remember offhand....
Originally posted by DVPGSR
Al Qaida, using Afghanistan as a base of operations, attacked the US first by flying our planes into our buildings.
Al Qaida, using Afghanistan as a base of operations, attacked the US first by flying our planes into our buildings.
In it, it speaks of how no two religions should control the holy land.
Or basiclly, US troops shouldn't be stationed in Saudi Arabia.
that is why Bin Laden resented us so much. And why were troops there? To control oil interests.
and that is why Bin Laden made the Fatwa or whatever they're called, when they "make a call for jahad!"
so basiclly, the war on terrorism starts and ends with us, or actually, the US