Ad infinitum.

 

Guess you have never lived and interacted with a neighborhood full of people that think that $8.50 per hour part time is a good job.

Seriously, people shouldn't be denied healthcare just because a few are going to abuse the system. For all of you gun loving conservatives (I'm not bashing, I'm a gun toting liberal), do you think guns should be banned because a few abuse them?

 

"If guns were outlawed, only the outlaws would have them." - Dunno.

My view on the gun situation is... it's illegal to carry a gun nowadays, but does that stop people from shooting other people? There were laws banning ak-47 assault rifles, but were crimes committed using ak-47 assault rifles during the ban? yes. If people think one more gun law is going to make criminals or potential criminals stop and think "Hmm, I was gonna go kill this guy with the gun I just stole, but since that gun is stolen and illegal... maybe I'll just go stab him in the throat witht his knife that is legal"

Banning all guns would have the same effect. They'd ban every gun, and guess what... crimes using guns would still happen. Because criminals don't care about breaking one more law.

As for the welfare thing... If it was easily proven that it's being abused, wouldn't you think it would have been fixed by now? Think the government is going to just come right out and say "Ok, 35% of the people on welfare (not a real number) are abusing the system by illegitimate means. We won't do anything about it, we just thought we'd let you know so you'd have the numbers" Rich kids from Beverly Hills and Malibu may not know it goes on, but people who don't soar among the clouds know that people do use these goverment programs through illegitimate means.

I'll give a real example from my time in Florida. My friend Kenny, very much like South Park Kenny was very poor, he had two sisters, and a dad who made crap money. They couldn't get on any sort of goverment assistance plan. They needed it. Believe me they did.

Patrina in my 9th grade Bio class came to school with all kinds of new clothes, mom had a brand new car, her sisters had new stuff probably every month. In the course of a conversation one day I asked what her parents did. She said her mom worked as a manager of some grocery place. Her dad was not in the picture. Mommy was on welfare.

So why does Kenny's family get nothing while his dad has a shit job with shit pay, but Patrina's mom with a relatively decent job with probably decent pay get on welfare?

Just one example can't say a huge amount, I know. But I've driven through compton, watts, inglewood, etc. Which I understand has a lot of families living on welfare, so why oh why do I see 6 brand new lincoln navigators and escalades on a street in watts where out comes a fat woman with 6 kids trailing after her to pick up her welfare check? People don't abuse the system? Bring your fairy tale society livin' ass down here. I can hardly see you anymore.

 

What I am going to post is from my own experiences with people on welfare and in noway am I using it to represent the welfare system as a whole. The points of view in this post are my own based upon my own observations and conversations with people being supported by the state.

The welfare program sucks! The way we go about implementing it does nothing but breed more welfare recipients. Welfare breeds welfare. If you do not work and apply for welfare you get a check every month and can live in section 8 housing. Both of these are paid for by the government...so it is your's and my tax dollars hard at work. If you are on welfare and want a bigger check, have a kid. Do you want more money? Have another kid. Do you want even more money? Have another kid! The people that receive this welfare and live in section 8 housing have nothing to take pride in. There is no job, there is no house to take care of, nothing. Why do you think poor neighborhoods are always run down? Because the people who own the buildings do not care about them and they get their money from the state every month and the people that live there do not care because nothing is theirs.

But what about their kids. Often times a mother has children with multiple fathers, most of the time the fathers are either dead, in jail, or no longer around. The children grow up in welfare doing what needs to be done to survive. They see their favorite rappers and ball players driving around in big SUVs with 20" chrome rims talking about being tough and think that is the life they are to live. These kids do not care about school because noone makes them care. They deal drugs and steal for extra money so they can go to the local store for a new pair of Enyce jeans, or they just kill or rob someone for it. (It has happened hear before) Then these kids start having kids and the whole cycle starts all over and before you know it you have third and fourth generation welfare recipients who know nothing but welfare.

This is the cycle that needs to be broken. Throwing more money or government programs at the situation does nothing to help it because the core of the problem remains the same. You can give a man meat and fish and he can feed his family once, but teach him to hunt and fish and he can feed his family forever. This is where we need to be. Welfare needs to be restructured so that people can own their own homes so they have something tangible to take pride in and take care of. They need to be given the skills necessary so they can get their own jobs to support their own families. They need to learn and cherish the value of an education so that their children will embrace it in order to get a better job and break the cycle of welfare breeding welfare.

OK end of my morning rant.

 

i have no numbers, but i do have personal experience. i went to high school with plenty of kids who's parents were on welfare. some abused, some didn't, but the amount that did was alarming. specifically, i have friend, who i also went to high school with, who is now a cop in that city. she frequently goes into the slums/projects/whatever as her job requires it. she sees it every day. people living with full entertainment centers, driving luxury cars, and so on, stuff that i can't even afford, not if i want to pay my bills. i have an acquaintance that installs cable and frequently goes into similar areas, to install cable, of course. he sees it too, flat-panel widescreen TVs, the nice cars parked along the street, etc.

i don't think anyone would live in crime-ridden slums by choice. so that begs the question, where are they getting the money to purchase all these luxury items?

and by the way, this is in the good ole' democratic state of connecticut, and the place i speak of was bridgeport. the cable guy works in new haven, ct.

there is a problem, a big problem. you're a fool if you don't realize that. i'm not saying that we should abolish social programs, i never have. but something seriously needs to be done.

and reading DVPGSR's post, that hits home. that's _exactly_ the problem i've seen.

 

I take it you were also brought up in a upper class household? I was brought up on section 8 and welfare. It seems to me that several of you watch too much tv and that's where you get your ideas of how "they" live. For every one dumbass out slinging drugs theres several more in school working their ass off so that their kids don't have to go through what they have. When's the last time you talked to someone on section 8? Section 8 doesn't pay shit. My mom has $550 a month rent, section 8 pays a whopping $60 a month towards that, which helps but not much. There are people out there abusing the system but a good many are using it to better themselves and their families.

 

Ironic! I was reffering to Bridgeport in my post because that is where I work and where I have gotten my experience, observation and opinions from.

 

I grew up in a middle-upper class home in a white collar environment. However I work in downtown Bridgeport (which is the poorest or second poorest city in CT) and have seen first hand what people go through. I have given money to mothers who cannot feed their children so they could get them some formula. I have paid for a ladie's lunch because she had less money than she thought she had at Subway. I talk and listen to these people to get a better understanding of their situations. I also talk to the security guards at work who are trying to break this cycle on their own and they tell me how things are. So I have a very good understanding of the situation, not because I watch TV but because I have taken the time to listen to the people that are affected and try to understand their problems. Again what I postedis my own experience and observations and in no place did I mention people abusing welfare. My point was to illustrate how I think welfare is not working and what I think needs to be done to fix it.

 

what's even more ironic is that people who just read about it or watch it on the news, are trying to tell us how it is. when we've experienced it firsthand, and know exactly how it is.

 

"I know this person on welfare who has a lot of nice stuff, so they must be abusing welfare, and in fact the whole system must be being abused!"

That's the standard rhetorical justification for the need to scrap the whole thing. I don't buy it.

So a single mother who only can work as a manager in a grocery store, or whatever the case may be, is able to lead a nice-on-the-surface existence. Consumers in this country are so conditioned to buy stuff and they all take on debt that far outpaces their income. What if this person has a pattern of buying stuff to put on appearances of having a normal income level despite their lower-than-average means?

So when someone is living beyond their means and they just so happen to be on welfare, I guess they MUST be abusing the system. I mean there's no other logical explanation for it; it's not like our entire society is based around the ability to buy stuff on credit.

Anecdotal examples do not define a trend. Furthermore, anecdotal examples that aren't even conclusive in and of themselves are even less useful.