Better example would be the JDM Honda Inspire that's based off the US designed and engineered US-spec Accord.

 

How is that any different than the MDX or Odyssey (a.k.a. LaGreat)?

 

Because the Monaro isn't JDM y0 if it was some Japanese GM, you can bet your ass everyone here would be all over it and wouldn't say shit about it being imported.

 

I'm just saying, because mayonaise is complaining that it is 'sad' that GM uses engineers from outside the USA for a car, how is that different from Honda using a US-spec Accord for its own domestic market and selling it as the Inspire?

 

Ah right. Which is exactly what they do with the MDX and LaGreat (which were both designed in the USA).

 

i'm saying it is different because GM couldn't do it by themselves (in detroit) even if their survival depended on it. i don't think honda depends on their foreign branches to produce excellent cars - they do that all over the place. but it seems that GM does depend on their foreign subsidaries to create innovative automobiles because they simply can't produce anything worth anything domestically. if they could have, they would have done it long ago. instead they just kept pumping out sub-par pontiacs, oldsmobiles, buicks, saturns... even their classic names like firebird and camaro fail them

if the only successful/unique/innovative cars honda had in japan were cars designed elsewhere in the world, that would be something to compare. but since that isn't the case, i don't think its a justified comparison

 

Eh whatever. That's some moral objection which defies logic so I can't really comment one way or the other.

 

eh. it pretty much is a moral objection - but it doesn't defy logic

 

I do sympathize with you, Mayo, and no it's not illogical. I think if Detroit had done this on their own, it really would be an emotional victory. As if to say, "hey, we can do it just like Germany and Japan". But, it's not a real dissapointment, either. GM has owned Holden for decades, the profits ends up in Detroit in the end, and it's still a good thing for the General. I just read last month they had their best fiscal quarter in almost 5 years. And it will only get better from here. So I guess the bottom line is not how you get it done, just get it done.

 

Let me explain the whole story (the short version ), if youre interested.

Holden was established in the late 1800's early 1900, they made bodies for horse drawn cariages.

early 1900's thay started making bodies for cars, primarily from U.S. chassis that were for local consumption.

the great depression hit, and holden's booming industy came to its knees,

GM stepped in, and bought the majority shares, and GM(H) was formed.

Holden was instructed by GM, and worked feverishly producing Military vehicles and the like for WWII

after the war Holden continued steady progress and eventually produced its own Australian car.

the rest is History, so holden has been part of GM sice the early 1930's i think.

The ties with the U.S. are undeniable, but Holden have used opels on a number of occassions , they also produced their own engines, the 60s - 70s holden Monaro used the Holden 308 (5.0l) v8 all australian designed and built , the body was also uniquely aussie, but some design aspects of the first Monaro were taken directly from the olds Toronado, and later in the 70s from the Pontiac GTO

the company later splitt into two divisions GM(Holden) and Holden Engine Company (HEC) , although they still use alot of off the shelf GM N/A parts and Engines.

getting back to the current Monaro / GTO, yes in 1997 Holden introduced its next GEN Commodore sedan and it shared a platform from the Opel omega / Catera platform (GM2800), but as you will soon find out its not the same , if you consider the aussie version was totaly revised, the chassis was strengthened for aussie conditions , widened, lengthened wheel base, the bodyparts also don't interchange, and the drivelines totally different ( the Holden used the Buick 3800 series II V6, and the Local 308 V8 , which in '99 was dropped in favour of the LS1 alloy V8.

in 2000 holden engineers/designers secretly (in their own spare time) drew up the plans for a 2-door version of the commodore sedan, which was by now a roaring success and beating Ford Falcon sales by 4-1, they changed the lines to a taught Coupe, that was a ferkin good looker.

Mr Hanenberger the CEO at the time caught wiff of these rumours and demanded he be shown these very early drawings and plans.

he instantly fell in love and gave the go-ahead, the project was done in record time and cost the company a measly 60mill ( a grill update usually costs more.)

The 2001 Sydney motorshow had the first ready working example and it was a resounding HIT , it was nameless at the time but the public quickly 'tagged' it monaro after the original 60s-70s Holden musclecar, people were walking around calling it Monaro before GMH had even decided on a name LOL.


The GTO as its going to be released in the States is the latest model the V2(version two) and has updated dash and a host of other things, all bugs/problems resolved, even the Left hand drive version of the sedan has been around for a couple of years in UAE as the lumina SS and longer wheelbase Caprice so don't expect any major first year model run glitches.

Getting back to your story on your encounter with this car, yes the car has been "tweaked" for U.S consumption and is more of a stripper version of ours (doesn't get climate control, memory seats, it has 17" instead of 18" rims) on the performance side - the PCM is updated, cam specs (high lift) are unique to GTO, the gearbox (M12) is out of the Z06 ( same as the T56, but its stronger and the gear ratios are more closley spaced, it also has triple synchro-mesh for smoother shifting over the MN6 found in the C5 and F-body, the m12 gearbox is also found in the Viper)

at 3700lbs 302hp Monaro has the interior space(head, leg and hip room) of say between a monte and grand prix, can do the quarter in 14-14.5 sec with a few dipping in the 13s.

the GTO has an underrated 350Hp, i predict this car will run flat to mid 13s depending who's driving, and possibly high 12s from factory freaks in good hands, ls1's aftermarket is huge anyway.

the car doesn't portray it good looks in pictures as well as it does in real life, the lines of it are classy yet muscular at the same time.

the first batch (460 cars left port adelaide last week, and should arrive in the west coast of the U.S. by thanksgiving.) of a monthly quota of around 1500 units will be produced and expected to retail for around 33k.