To respond to your post, Ben:

The Q45 sells bad because it's a $60,000 Infiniti. In this country, nameplate is everything in that price range. It should undercut the LS430 by alot; instead it is priced similiar to it. The people that buy these cars are extremely concerned about nameplate. In foreign countries, nameplate is not nearly as much of an issue.

I agree with your analysis on the luxury car buyers. However, keep in mind that alot of those car buyers (this ties in with what I said with the Q45) don't really care about specifications. What they care about is how it drives and how comfortable it is. And what the nameplate it. Acura has a bit more panache than Infiniti, but they have little when it comes to the luxury sedan segment.
While many members of the upper class will be the first to buy DVD players or flat screen TVs, this has probably more to do with their budget than it does their knowledge of products. Most wealthy people (especially the older people who tend to buy the Lexus LS, BMW 7, Mercedes S, and Infiniti Q) are not car enthusiasts. It is the car enthusiast that will buy into this technology first because they have read about it. The wealthy people will buy into it because of Consumer Reports/salespeople and, what the hell, they have money to blow. Think of it this way: Sony comes out with a brand new 20 Megapixel digital camera that promises the world and uses tons of new technology. The cost of this camera is about $2500. The wealthy people will naturally buy this first, and the technology will filter into the lower classes as the price drops. Past examples of this are the TV, VCR, Microwave, Air Conditioner and, most recently, Computers, DVD players, and Digital Cameras. Of course the wealthy will "adopt" to it first...they are the only ones that can afford it until the technology becomes cheaper/easier to produce.

And I agree about the competition...I expect about 20% of all cars sold to be Hybrid in 10 years, with it being closer to 50% in 15-20 years. It is a technology that has virtually no cons, except for the unknown reliability and the cost of the system.

 

Let me start off by saying good post.

When it comes down to it, I think people who are looking to buy a full sized luxury sedan are well into their 50's a lot of the time, and prefer a more cushy ride and the more conservative styling the LS430 has. Not to mention the Lexus name.

I would hope to see an RL that has a 3.5L V6 (J35 would do just fine) powering the front wheels and a eletric motor for each rear wheel. Otherwise I'd think there would be too much weight at the front, and too much torque for the front wheels to handle.

 

The cons I can think of are added weight and reliabilty, just for the fact that more things can go wrong with the system. As far as the price goes, there is usually a nice little premium people pay to upgrade their engine for some more cylinders. I think theyd be jsut as willing, if not more so, to pay a similar price to get not only more power, but better economy.

 

Two words: Baby Boomers.

The new cars from both are just Gen X experiments. You'll notice theat for the most part they are retaining their classic cars as well.

And I would hardly call the LS a styling leap. It is sharp and a good looker but still has classic, refined styling. I would like it if the thing had some balls.

 

Park Acura in Akron/Canton is a good second choice, if you dont mind a 45 min or so drive south. It's off of the Arlington Rd. exit on I-77.....just north of Akron/Canton airport. They've always treated my family well.

 

Quote:

And I would hardly call the LS a styling leap. It is sharp and a good looker but still has classic, refined styling. I would like it if the thing had some balls.

I think you need to reread my post. Nowhere, did I say the LS is a "styling leap". In fact, the car is DIRT! If I'm not mistaken, the car does have some balls, 275 hp and is marketed as a sport sedan for a younger generation than Lincoln is used to.

This is exactly my point! Acura is known for its sport luxury and for the person who had a TL and would like a larger Acura with the same or similar road manners they have no choice but to go somewhere else. Looking at the two luxury marquis, BMW and Mercedes, you will find that if a consumer has brand loyalty (which Honda/Acura have a lot of) they have a car that will satisfy every need. For example, if an owner of a 328 came into a BMW showroom and he decided that he needed a larger car with the same fun and excitement that he experienced in the 3-series he could get a 525, 530, 540 or M5. Or if the guy drove a 5-series he could get a 7-series. Same with Mercedes C-class through S-class. Point is, the consumer has options and if he has brand loyalty he can find the car that fits his needs.

I hate to mention it but V8. Would I like one? Yes. Will Acura give me one? No. I know and heard everyone mention about how it won't sell and that the RL doesn't need it! Hey to each his own! Everyone mentions how the GS300 outsells the GS430 and how the 540 is outsold by the 530i/525i. Well of course it is, but it is an option!!!! An option, which creates choice for the consumer. People also mention IMA. No one wants a luxury car that tachs out at 8,000 and revs at 3,500 while cruising at 65mph. It's annoying and most likely has little low-end torque.

 

Well, you had said that Lincoln was tying to appeal to a younger set with the LS. I just think it was supposed to be sporty.


Having driven one several times, let me assure you that it is dog slow.

 

At the same time, most Honda/Acura customers also puts value of the dollar and efficiency in their needs. BMW and MB customers don't care for value. They have excess monatary money they can just blow away and don't care for paying thousands more for just the higher status of the brand name. But I'm not doubting Honda loses many customers who goes for V8s in the RL's class. But how many does it lose? And does it really justify it business-wise to invest millions of dollars for development a V8 for this very low market yet? See Q45. I doubt the M45 will be successful, but the jury's still out on that.


Please get off the high rpm and no torque bandwagon. The RL is old, the RL's 3.5L is dated. That is true, but the 260hp 3.5L in the MDX is anything from a high revving low tq motor. The peak hp/tq is near or identical that of some V8's in its class, if it was mated to the RL. Tq peak is at 3500rpm. Also keep in mind, this is a SOHC engine. Engineer it to a DOHC and there's more potential. Combined with a hybrid electric system powering the other set of wheels, it has possibilities to even rival the power of many V8s in its class.

 

So let me get this straight. You are willing to argue that BMW and Mercedes customers don't care for value! Are you insane? Last time I checked, these cars offer high quality and value. You mean someone buying a >$40K 5-series, who most likely is well educated and has done some homework does not care for value? If this "fact" of yours is true than how did Mercedes and BMW get the "higher status"? True, some people would by a brand name for the status. However, the status must offer something in return. Have you ever driven a BMW or Mercedes? The fit and finish is far superior to Acura/Honda or any other brand with the exception of maybe Lexus. Yes, Mercedes quality has decreased over the last few years. But this is quality in terms of repairs/problems not build quality. For example, does an RL have leather on the whole door panel. No. Does an S-Class- YES.

Your statement regarding the people buying Mercedes and BMW can afford to just blow away thousands more for status actually contradicts a study that was performed on millionaires. The study showed that most millionaires do not own a suit over $400, most likely have a sears credit card over Neimann Marcus, etc. Therefore, when you have the $$$, your not worried about status. You have nothing to prove. Example, On MTV Britney Spears has a convertible Sebring. It's not a status symbol; in fact it’s a piece of ****. The people who buy a Mercedes or BMW for status are more likely to be the people who can barely afford it and want to feel rich. Which consumer are you?

 

Dont argue the fact BMW's and MB's are overpriced. They are still great cars.

And the people that buy a bottom of the line bimmer are the ones who want to act rich. People who really are rich buy a 7-Series becuase its an amazing car, and they can afford it.