jaje

So one year ago before the new IS and Camry's 3.5 liter v6, Honda had a 240hp 3.0 v6 versus Toyota's 190hp v6 (which Toyota advertised as 220hp only to be corrected under the new rules)...there's that 50 point advantage. I don't remember Honda = 50 more horsepower than anyone. Where did you get this random made up information? The NSX made 270hp and versus it's competition it was underpowered but made up for it in the whole package. Drive a Camry back to back with an Accord and you'll see that HP is not the entire equation and the only consideration. Honda makes a great car and so does Toyota. So frickin what that Toyota's got a new corporate v6 that makes some good power. It doesn't mean that Honda is behind in engine technology. That's a completely ignorant statement when it only applies to a couple engines and many other Toyota engines are not class leading and Honda is ahead of them. I think you are confusing Nissan with Honda. Nissan is engine power and displacement (to overcome it's flaws). Honda is do more with less (efficiency through technology). Toyota is dominate the world.

Ochdx

So lets say you are buying an used TL that has nearly 100k on the clock. How do you know whether the tranny will fail once you are over that mark?

On the other hand, if you are buying an used ES, you just need to test whether or not the engine is running good or not. As long as it's running good, even if it has some sludge build up, its easily fixed with a few seafoam treatments. So you decide, whether or not its an issue.

Ochdx

Well please show me where is that more with less NOW???

fastball

That's funny.

jaje

I love proving my points with FACTS - what about you? Thanks for your OPINIONS (NOT FACTS) - have a good day!

2006 Civic R18 engine - "In pursuit of their 'Man Max-Machine Min' principle, Honda has been introducing smaller and smaller engines."

Machine Minimum / Man Maximum philosophy (the mechanicals of the car should impede the least amount possible to maximize space for the occupants). Need examples? Honda Fit, Civic, Ridgeline (compact pickup but the interior space of full size quad cabs), Honda Jet (by moving the engines above the wing - something all other's wrote off as impossible - this allowed the interior to have 30% more space, 30% less drag, etc.). Here's some other vehicles that follow this focus.

Honda B16A engine first to make the magical 100hp/liter mark.

2001 Civic - Several major feats done here, such as moving the power steering rack up high so the engine bay can be smaller. The D17A engine was more powerful but smaller than the D16 it replaced.

The new Fit's engine 1.5 liter makes the same power as many of it's competitors 1.6 liter engines, but takes up the same space and gets the same mileage as a 1.3 liter engine. The Fit also employed their first Electric Power Steering further reducing space (do more w/ less).

Future Engine Technologies (only mfgr to have made major strides in all these areas - most others just pick and choose one)

Acura RDX (Honda's First Turbocharged engine) - smaller inline 4 turbo choosen over larger V6

jaje

Or course he didn't mention the Avalon has 120k miles on it and needs brakes where his parents 2006 Acura with 10k has been flawless! WOW

jaje

So with the Honda you get 100k of assurances...with the Toyota you got diddly squat!

Oh BTW - the failure rate was ~ 2% on the Honda/Acura V6 transmissions (Consumer's Reports verifies this at ~1.6% transmission failure rate)where the failure rate on the Toyotas was a design problem so if you didn't get regular oil changes and oil flushes and seafoam (what average driver does all this?) - it was 100%

Oh and Honda did a redesign of the transmission in 2003 (so only the 99-02 were at risk but only a ~2% one at that). The transmission failures were a big deal b/c of the expensiveness of the repair and the lack of a working car.

Here's what Honda did: "My friend bought a used Acura TL that was under warranty, and the transmission died a slow death during the next few months. The dealership agreed to replace it free of charge, gave him a free loaner car, the works. The kicker is, Honda/Acura was so surprised that the transmission failed so catastrophically, they requested the dealership crate it up and ship it to Japan where they can examine it and determine the cause of failure."

jaje

OHCDX...we all know your passive intent here is to root for Toyota (just as LexusIS350 is here to bash Toyota - to the better part of ignorance). It's not that I don't disagree as I like this forum to have more open minded discussions rather than bashing all other makes.

You have to know that stating OPINION does not equal fact. If you want to push your opinion as fact then you have to do so (and support your OPINIONS with support / corroboration / veracity). At this time just stating an accusatory opinion with no support is a waste of everyone's time. I have posted up the backup for my side yet see nothing from you.

I again hit back to you to PROVE IT. In fact your irrelevant shot at the v6 transmission failure when you were saying Honda engines are behind Toyotas just shows the grasping you have to do.

bluetwo

Wow there sure is a lot about the Fusion in this thread! :sarcasm:

Ochdx

Ok, so engines are taking less space, but they still increase in displacement, so whats the point? Those are all tiny econobox engines. I don't have the data handy, but I believe Corollas and Yaris are just as efficient as Civics and Fits.

This turbocharged 4 cylinder engine is less powerful and less fuel efficient than the V6 engine found in RAV4.