yea i know the LS400 has always been in the lexus line up but it seems LS430 has more of oh **** factor

 

IMO any lexus vehicle is nicer than any Acura... please no flames, my opinion. Acura to me has always been a just a "nicer" honda, due to the fact that they arent much more expensive, but that there arent that many "luxury features" like auto sensing wipers, etc.... that you will find on expensive luxury cars like MB and lexus. For the most part, lexus's are more expensive than Acuras, and i would be willing to pay that extra difference if i wanted one. In my eyes, Acuras are for people want a wannabe luxury car at a budget price. A TL is a fancy accord that only costs a few $k more. The RL is nothing... its almost like a bigger TL with just less HP than a TL-s. If Acura truly wants to compete with MB, lexus, BMW etc.... they need to offer a more expensive 4 door luxury sedan with all the features + the power, especially since hondas new accord has 240hp, even more than the $20k more RL- which is kind of ridiculous. There is definately a difference between todays new Toyotas & Lexus's both in features and especially price, which IMO keeps them more separate then what Honda does with Acura. I think they need to boost up the Acura line, to keep them farther away from the Honda lineup.

This is my opinion, you do not have to agree with me

Mike

 

yea i agree with u...i still love acuras tho...since the accord has a lot of nice features more than the TL the next TL should be higher up than the accords which we might see those nice stuff thats on MB and such...but the RL should have stuff u dun really even need like massaging heated seats just to boost the image of the car up

 

For a "new" member, you do like to speak so highly of Toyota and lowly of Honda. All of your posts on N&R has been "Toyota does better at this" and included some form of Toyota propaganda and Honda nitpicking.

Any entry-level luxury car is going to be 'wannabe'. I wouldn't call the premium you pay for a TL 'budget'. It's price is not cheap. It's more like a valued price. The way you put the TL as a fancy Accord is misleading. Yes, it shares a streched platform from the Accord, but it does not use the same powertrain to its mainstream siblings like other bridge models like the ES300, A4, and I35. In fact, with the ES300 and I35, they're more fitting to the word fancy because they're basically Camry and Maxima with near identical motor and transmissions, very similar dimensional specs and mostly cosmetic changes. And you pay a few thousands more for those near identical cars just for name!!!

At least in the TL, you get a larger car than the Accord, a bigger displacement, a manumatic 5spd transmission, more options, and a Type-S higher output engine option. You couldn't get a navi option in below $40k Lexus or Infiniti before the TL came out with it.

Look at VW/Audi. Both brand share the A3 and A4 platform and has been sucessful. I think there's enough difference between the Accord and TL to separate the brands. The TSX will be the bridge that connects the two brand together, like what VW has done with the Passat and A4. The sucess of separating the perception of the brands depends more on marketing.

Lexus will always carry its crowd of followers, and rightfully so. They have some nice cars, but don't discount Acura. Acura takes a different route and focuses on value and performance. Lexus has nothing to compare to the TL Type-S models. The IS300 is close, but its doesn't quiet have the performance or value of the TL-S. IMO, the MDX is hands down better than the RX300. And vice versa, there's models that Acura doesn't have to compare to Lexus or Infiniti.

Basically, through all this, you've gone way off tangent of the original discusion that Honda was and is an underdog and was the pioneer of Japanese premium brands in automobile in the USA market and turned it into a discussion of Lexus vs Acura and a propaganda for Toyota and Lexus, which was totally pointless. :slap:

 

:bowdown:

Kazi,

That has to be one of the most polite, sincere, and truthfull rebuttals I have seen yet!:thumbup:

wned:

 

Probably not for awhile. Yianni is right, it's all about the flag ship. People like my mom think the car is good because there's some super rich guy who has a lexus that cost alot. It's all in the image and Acura doesn't have very expensive car to have an expensive image.

 

That is very true. Acura does lack a competitive flagship sedan. But, Lexus and Infiniti doesn't have a supercar like the NSX. Even at its age, the NSX is does provide a nice icon of what Acura is. Which helps Acura's image tied with more sport than luxury. Have also noticed a lot of 'moms' eye Lexus more? Maybe because females focus on plush over sport/performance?

 

I think the NSX stands alone. There's really no connection between the NSX and the rest of the Acura line. NSX is an amazing sport car in many ways while the rest of the acura like like sporty luxury.
Even with its age? Those 2 are 5 years younger than Acura. But I think they didn't bring over their super car yet because they don't feel like they need to yet. But they are bringing it over according to R&T. Toyota is bringing over a V10 supercar costing about $150k and Nissan is bringing over the GT-R with about 450 HP & still AWD.
Acura is looking at the NSX for performance image while Lexus and infiniti is just trying to improve all their cars to match the image they want to project.

 

Sorry, I edited my last post to clarify that I meant the NSX is aged, not Lexus/Infiniti.

I think the NSX has plenty of connection with the rest of the Acura line and somewhat Honda. The NSX's engine is basically used in other Honda products. The NSX's VTEC system was trickled down to all of Honda's line.

But the point was, a flagship or an icon model represents a lot on the preception of a brand. A Lexus' flagship LS430 and SC430 model really focuses on luxury and less on sport. Infiniti's flagship Q45 focuses on techno gadget stuff and comtemporary style. Acura has the NSX as an icon and flagship to represents the reliability and performance of its brand. Just like how your mother sees the Lexus brand because of her perception on the flagship model.

 

You are correct in saying that the NSX stands alone...as the only Japanese supercar. And the connection between the NSX and the rest of the Acura lineup is very evident. The NSX is built out of the technology used in Honda's race cars that has been adapted to fit a real life production vehicle. This technology used in the NSX has then been adapted to the rest of the Acura lineup. Where do you think the sport come from?

Sure Infiniti and and Lexus are not as old as Acura, but Nissan(Datsun) and Toyota have been around longer than Honda...why did those two not produce a car similar to the NSX, afterall the NSX is a Honda everywhere else in the world, except for Canada. And the NSX is 13? years old and neither Nissan or Toyota have a car that can match it in overall build quality.

What image is Infiniti and Lexus trying to project? Honda/Acura was born out of a motorcyle racing company that moved onto car racing and production cars. Their cars are still built upon that technology. Don't get me wrong though in the fact that both Nissan(Infiniti) and Toyota(Lexus) make great cars, but they are built in a different manner from Honda(Acura).