Nissan buying Hybrid technology from Toyota
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Oceanside, CA
Thanks, I really enjoy hearing and talking about cars in general. I'm a car enthusiast so I have no favorite brand, just favorite car.
If that's your definition of muscle cars then you're contradicting yourself about the skyline and supra being muscle car because you said it yourself, they're no slouches in handling either. Great handling and massive power, what more do you want. It might not pose a threat to cars like the modena because they're in totally different price range and people who buy a modena probably want the ferrari name and no other brand can change their mind.
If that's your definition of muscle cars then you're contradicting yourself about the skyline and supra being muscle car because you said it yourself, they're no slouches in handling either. Great handling and massive power, what more do you want. It might not pose a threat to cars like the modena because they're in totally different price range and people who buy a modena probably want the ferrari name and no other brand can change their mind.
lots and lots of fail
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,004
Likes: 1
From: Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeetroit
Originally posted by asianautica
Thanks, I really enjoy hearing and talking about cars in general. I'm a car enthusiast so I have no favorite brand, just favorite car.
If that's your definition of muscle cars then you're contradicting yourself about the skyline and supra being muscle car because you said it yourself, they're no slouches in handling either. Great handling and massive power, what more do you want. It might not pose a threat to cars like the modena because they're in totally different price range and people who buy a modena probably want the ferrari name and no other brand can change their mind.
Thanks, I really enjoy hearing and talking about cars in general. I'm a car enthusiast so I have no favorite brand, just favorite car.
If that's your definition of muscle cars then you're contradicting yourself about the skyline and supra being muscle car because you said it yourself, they're no slouches in handling either. Great handling and massive power, what more do you want. It might not pose a threat to cars like the modena because they're in totally different price range and people who buy a modena probably want the ferrari name and no other brand can change their mind.
I am a car enthusiast, although I have an incredible hatred of Toyota because they're scum bags (they cheat to get ahead in racing) and I generally dislike all American cars with the exception of the SVT Mustang, Z06, Esperante, and S7. My favorite brand in general is Honda because of their philosophy and execution, although I would love a new 350Z or G35C in the near future over an Accord Coupe EX-V6 6 spd, if price allows. I shall see.
Toyota Racing = Cheaters
Joined: Mar 2002
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Originally posted by JaydeeEmzOwnzYo
that fact, if true, has nothing to do with their current line up, and who will buy them. I doubt highly that the average person says, " oh, im not gonna buy a toyota because they cheat in racing."
that fact, if true, has nothing to do with their current line up, and who will buy them. I doubt highly that the average person says, " oh, im not gonna buy a toyota because they cheat in racing."
forever lurking
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,392
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From: El Monte, CA
Originally posted by JaydeeEmzOwnzYo
that fact, if true, has nothing to do with their current line up, and who will buy them. I doubt highly that the average person says, " oh, im not gonna buy a toyota because they cheat in racing." The salesman who work for honda, are the scum bags, at least who ive dealt with, as well as my family.
that fact, if true, has nothing to do with their current line up, and who will buy them. I doubt highly that the average person says, " oh, im not gonna buy a toyota because they cheat in racing." The salesman who work for honda, are the scum bags, at least who ive dealt with, as well as my family.
as for honda salesmen being scumbags... they're car salesmen
lots and lots of fail
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,004
Likes: 1
From: Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeetroit
Originally posted by asianautica
How do you know they are based on their power? If they handle very well, then wouldn't hat mean they also based on handling too? The Z06 also handles like mad too, as well has go very fast on the straight away. Why do you hate Toyota so much? What do you mean they are scum bags? Why did they cheat and when? I dislike alot of the american cars too. The Z06 besides it's performance (power and handling) is a horrible car. The interior is very cheap and it looks exactly like my friend's SS.
How do you know they are based on their power? If they handle very well, then wouldn't hat mean they also based on handling too? The Z06 also handles like mad too, as well has go very fast on the straight away. Why do you hate Toyota so much? What do you mean they are scum bags? Why did they cheat and when? I dislike alot of the american cars too. The Z06 besides it's performance (power and handling) is a horrible car. The interior is very cheap and it looks exactly like my friend's SS.
Argue all you want, the Skyline and Supra were based on power. Anyone can look at the specs and tell you that. Some cars do some things well, others do others well. The Supra/Skyline do the drag strip the best, whereas the NSX is a completely different creature. You're getting caught up in symantics, please just take my statements at face value.
Toyota Racing = Cheaters
Joined: Mar 2002
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Originally posted by 02RSXTYPES
Toyota cheated because they couldn't get ahead with their engines, so they bought their way ahead. I cannot remember the exact circumstances, besides how they paid/forced CART to change to IRL-spec engines without telling Honda, so jaje will have to tell about it. My memory sucks.
Toyota cheated because they couldn't get ahead with their engines, so they bought their way ahead. I cannot remember the exact circumstances, besides how they paid/forced CART to change to IRL-spec engines without telling Honda, so jaje will have to tell about it. My memory sucks.
Here's a copy and paste from the Wall Street Journal from Sept 21, 2000:
As Honda Chief Executive Hiroyuki Yoshino strolled through the Toyota display at this year's Detroit auto show, what caught his eye wasn't the roster of new Toyotas but a very familiar red race car.
The Toyota Motor Corp. name was clearly emblazoned on the side of the car. But there was no doubt: This was the machine that had been powered by Honda engines and serviced by Honda engineers, until just a year ago. It was the same machine used by race-team owner Chip Ganassi -- under the Honda Motor Co. flag -- before he orchestrated a sensational defection last year and named Toyota as his new engine supplier.
The Toyota display did tout the Ganassi team's four racing championships. What it didn't mention was that Honda was associated with all of those wins. Astounded, a fuming Mr. Yoshino had to be restrained by his subordinates as he began looking around for Toyota's president, Fujio Cho.
....
Of all Toyota's attacks, what infuriates Honda executives most is the way its rival has outfoxed them on the race circuit. Toyota began racing in America's CART (Championship Auto Racing Teams) series in 1996, its first foray into the top echelon of American motor sports. One key objective, says Tsutomu Tomita, the Toyota director in charge of racing, is to gain the kind of youthful image that has helped Honda so powerfully. Yet, for their first four years, Toyota-powered engines conked out race after race, blowing the engines, spewing smoke, spilling oil and sometimes dropping broken parts on the track, interrupting the races. Drivers and their teams complained Toyota engines were a danger to their safety and told Toyota to put diapers on its engines so that its cars wouldn't spill on the racetrack. The board that runs the sport told Toyota to go back to the drawing boards and retest its powertrains. Spectators moaned Toyota was making the race boring.
Once a laughingstock, this year Toyota engines suddenly began shining. In June a Toyota-powered car won a race in Milwaukee, giving Toyota its first victory in 78 races. Toyota's Mr. Tomita says that the company came up with several modifications in engine technology. After 17 races this season, Toyota now ranks as the third engine supplier behind Ford and Honda.
Honda concedes that improved engines have helped Toyota on the racetrack. But it also says Toyota got a huge boost from the new team of champion drivers it stole from Honda: the team owned by Chip Ganassi, which racked up 30 wins in a total of 72 races with Honda engines from 1996 to 1999. Mr. Ganassi says he received compensation in the range of "$3 to $5 million" for switching to Toyota -- an unusual development in the low-key and generally small-bucks CART world. Toyota's Mr. Tomita confirms that Toyota paid Mr. Ganassi but won't specify details. Mr. Ganassi says that he felt the future is more secure with Toyota as an engine supplier. "Comparatively speaking, Honda just doesn't have the resources that Toyota has," he says.
Once the Ganassi team began using its engines, Toyota quickly launched a TV ad campaign that irritated Honda. Like the Detroit auto show display, Toyota billed the Ganassi team as its own four-time CART champion team, without mentioning that all those four times the team was driving Honda- powered machines. "The ads are absolutely misleading; we would never resort to a stunt like that," says Mr. Fukui. "We have pride."
The Toyota Motor Corp. name was clearly emblazoned on the side of the car. But there was no doubt: This was the machine that had been powered by Honda engines and serviced by Honda engineers, until just a year ago. It was the same machine used by race-team owner Chip Ganassi -- under the Honda Motor Co. flag -- before he orchestrated a sensational defection last year and named Toyota as his new engine supplier.
The Toyota display did tout the Ganassi team's four racing championships. What it didn't mention was that Honda was associated with all of those wins. Astounded, a fuming Mr. Yoshino had to be restrained by his subordinates as he began looking around for Toyota's president, Fujio Cho.
....
Of all Toyota's attacks, what infuriates Honda executives most is the way its rival has outfoxed them on the race circuit. Toyota began racing in America's CART (Championship Auto Racing Teams) series in 1996, its first foray into the top echelon of American motor sports. One key objective, says Tsutomu Tomita, the Toyota director in charge of racing, is to gain the kind of youthful image that has helped Honda so powerfully. Yet, for their first four years, Toyota-powered engines conked out race after race, blowing the engines, spewing smoke, spilling oil and sometimes dropping broken parts on the track, interrupting the races. Drivers and their teams complained Toyota engines were a danger to their safety and told Toyota to put diapers on its engines so that its cars wouldn't spill on the racetrack. The board that runs the sport told Toyota to go back to the drawing boards and retest its powertrains. Spectators moaned Toyota was making the race boring.
Once a laughingstock, this year Toyota engines suddenly began shining. In June a Toyota-powered car won a race in Milwaukee, giving Toyota its first victory in 78 races. Toyota's Mr. Tomita says that the company came up with several modifications in engine technology. After 17 races this season, Toyota now ranks as the third engine supplier behind Ford and Honda.
Honda concedes that improved engines have helped Toyota on the racetrack. But it also says Toyota got a huge boost from the new team of champion drivers it stole from Honda: the team owned by Chip Ganassi, which racked up 30 wins in a total of 72 races with Honda engines from 1996 to 1999. Mr. Ganassi says he received compensation in the range of "$3 to $5 million" for switching to Toyota -- an unusual development in the low-key and generally small-bucks CART world. Toyota's Mr. Tomita confirms that Toyota paid Mr. Ganassi but won't specify details. Mr. Ganassi says that he felt the future is more secure with Toyota as an engine supplier. "Comparatively speaking, Honda just doesn't have the resources that Toyota has," he says.
Once the Ganassi team began using its engines, Toyota quickly launched a TV ad campaign that irritated Honda. Like the Detroit auto show display, Toyota billed the Ganassi team as its own four-time CART champion team, without mentioning that all those four times the team was driving Honda- powered machines. "The ads are absolutely misleading; we would never resort to a stunt like that," says Mr. Fukui. "We have pride."
TOYOTA TO LEAVE CART?
Toyota announced Sept. 27th it plans to only make one engine formula in 2003, a normally aspirated 3.5 L engine as will be contested in the IRL. Toyota stated it needed to make a decision for business reasons in the absence of CART's future engine rules, requiring two years notice based on the engine stability agreement. The engine manufacturers have been discussing the new rules package for a number of years (since 1997) which include a 1.8 L turbocharged engine or a 3-or-more L normally aspirated engine. Honda has been opposed to a low tech engine (normally aspirated) but an agreement was expected earlier this summer until the new spacer pop-off valve was imposed (see Mary Mendez' column in CRO, CART Wheels).
Toyota indicated they would consider competing in CART in 2003 if it made sound business sense. The teams currently supplied by Toyota are Target Chip Ganassi, Patrick, Newman/Haas, Walker and PacWest Racing. Not only could Toyota's absence generate an engine supply crisis in the series but it also means a large loss of sponsorship to the teams and advertising promotion for CART.
Toyota announced Sept. 27th it plans to only make one engine formula in 2003, a normally aspirated 3.5 L engine as will be contested in the IRL. Toyota stated it needed to make a decision for business reasons in the absence of CART's future engine rules, requiring two years notice based on the engine stability agreement. The engine manufacturers have been discussing the new rules package for a number of years (since 1997) which include a 1.8 L turbocharged engine or a 3-or-more L normally aspirated engine. Honda has been opposed to a low tech engine (normally aspirated) but an agreement was expected earlier this summer until the new spacer pop-off valve was imposed (see Mary Mendez' column in CRO, CART Wheels).
Toyota indicated they would consider competing in CART in 2003 if it made sound business sense. The teams currently supplied by Toyota are Target Chip Ganassi, Patrick, Newman/Haas, Walker and PacWest Racing. Not only could Toyota's absence generate an engine supply crisis in the series but it also means a large loss of sponsorship to the teams and advertising promotion for CART.
lots and lots of fail
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,004
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From: Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeetroit
Thank you kaz 
There is also more but I cannot remember it. I remembered the Ganassi thing but not perfectly. Guess what he did under Toyota power...absolutely nothing. He fell off the face of the Earth.
There is also more but I cannot remember it. I remembered the Ganassi thing but not perfectly. Guess what he did under Toyota power...absolutely nothing. He fell off the face of the Earth.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,523
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From: Frisco, Texas
What Kazi said. Not to mention that whole ordeal with Toyota complaining to CART about Honda's like blow off valves been too good, and they changed the whole rules to fit them better.
Oh well, CART screwed themselves over by being Toyota's *****.
Oh well, CART screwed themselves over by being Toyota's *****.