Ugh. Like i said, I dont think they even make the Supra anymore, in any country.

Also, you just proved that Toyota races for the advertising, and nothing else. How in the world will a Celica driver benefit from a rally car which shares very few things with a normal Celica? Not to mention the drag car thats a RWD V8 that has nothing in commen with the Celica except the headlights which are painted on.

 

True Toyota races for advertising and Celica drivers won't see any benefit from either the rally celica to the RWD V8 celica but my point is that Toyota "can" make performance engine/car. They just choose not to bring those technologies to the everyday car. Also, the V8 is the iForce V8 in their Tundra. It might not be exactly the same but I think that's the engine that they started with, not sure.

 

Who cares who builds what, and who their target audience is. I certainly do not think HONDA!!! when i hear performance engines. Yes, Honda/Nissan may have more HP, but they have always been regarded as LESS refined than a Toyota. People have always complained about poor interior plastics etc... in Hondas. Regardless if Toyotas engines arent the fastest around, they are still great engines. They have just the right amount of power for who will be buying and driving. The camry V6 is in no way underpowered, nor is the new 157HP 4cyl VVT-i. I doubt a family looking for a midsize sedan is going to be comparing 1/4 mile times, or 0-60. Toyota doesn't have the fastest cars, nor do they want to. They are reliable, smooth, quiet, and just about perfect. Honda has always had loud, high-revving 4cyl engines. How long did they wait to bring a V6 into the Accord? 1995? And when they did, they were way behind the competition. Toyota had offered a V6 camry for quite a while before that. And when Honda did finally bring the V6 to the accord, it was a weak engine. In 1992 when Toyota released Gen 2 Camry, it had the 188HP V6 avail with 5spd. It had everything over the Accord. Car copmpanies play a game of cat & mouse, and the lead goes back and fourth and always will. Face the facts, theirs always gonna be pros/cons of each car company, and no need to put one another down just because they may have an advantage here or there. Post this same thread in a Toyota Enthusiast forum, and you will have a good argument on both sides. Toyota isnt really regarded as "rice" like hondas are, and always will be, becuase little kids go out and buy them, when they cant afford a Toyota.

sean

 

i find honda and toyota pretty equally priced...for years the civic was much more sportly lookin than the corrola...more people choose the civic giving them more aftermarket support...echo is cheaper than any car honda offers too so its not like toyota is not in the same range as hondas price wise

 

94UhkordGuy, very well put. I agree with you 100%. Aftermarket has nothing to do with the total sales. I thought the Corolla out sell the civic, not sure. Aftermarket is only big for the B series engine because there's alot of people w/ B series engine that like modding. If alot of Corolla people like to mod, i'm sure there'll be alot of aftermarket for them too, but they don't that's why they don't have that much aftermarket support.

 

i agree, i was refering to Camry more $ than accord, etc... I would buy a civic over a corolla, not because i dont like the new corolla, but that people like the civic a lot better, and theres boards like these also supporting them. I think this is the nicest looking corolla toyota has ever produced. If in the market for Corolla, i would wait till toyota adds the 180hp 6spd in 2005.

 

yea i also think this is the best lookin corolla they ever produced

 

Cheap plastics, eh? GM is just NOW getting to where the Accord was in 1989! Seems like people forget the Acura Legend..... 200-220 hp V-6 and available six speed stick, and that engine didn't even have VTEC. The "rice" which you refer to are kids who buy old Civics, Preludes, CELLICAS, and MR2's to soup up. And now that the Accord V-6 will have 240hp and a six speed available, you need to buy a Lexus to have a Toyota product keep up with it. In the last 5 years, Honda has become the elite combination of perfomance, quality, and value. Sure, you can get a BMW for better performance and quality, but you need bokoo bucks to get even a cheap one...... ever notice how a $17,000 Civic is MUCH more refined and far better performing than pretty much anything else in the price range?

 

$17k for a civic, I'm assuming you're talking about the EX? Performance is no where near the SE-R or the SpecV. Refinement is very objective when the two are similar. Sure if on a scale of 10, one has refinement of 2 and the other of 8, then you can tell them apart right away. But what if one is a 7 and the other is an 8. What kind of criteria would bump one car from a 7 to an 8. When it's that close, I doubt you can tell unless you start to nit pick.
"ricer" doesn't have to buy old cars. I've seen a brand new 02 Civic all riced out. I've even seen a TL-S all riced out. Ricer are every where w/ all sorts of cars. hehe, there's the expensive rice and there's a cheap rice, but still rice none the less...

 

Nissan's interiors are very cheap.... all of them. Besides, a Civic EX (top of the line) coupe manual trans. is $16,500. That gives you power everything, moonroof, and is the EXACT same price as a Chevy Cavalier Z24. MUCH better handling, performance, reliability, and tons of value compared to the Chevy. I'm not saying Honda can do no wrong, but their designs over the last 5 years are becomming better built, more affordable, better performing, and even more reliable. Value is just as much a factor, you must understand. If not, I'd buy a Bently Arnage Turbo R or Lamborghini Murcielago.