aem cold air and generic
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: CA
Originally posted by AcsRcool
but to say a pipe is just a pipe is an uneducated and ignorant statement.
but to say a pipe is just a pipe is an uneducated and ignorant statement.
and as for the rest of your post, couldn't have said it any better.. engineers control the world
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Joined: May 2002
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From: NoVA
Originally posted by decibel_dj
what time of year? dyno in front of you off a fan? open air source regardless of fan? car was driven or sat b4 dyno'ing?
my car was done in front of me with the garage door closed with a fan blowing than ran again with the door open allowing the colder (winter air) to come into the bay. also my car was driven in between the mod swap outs pior to dynoing (cuz they were tryn to find why my engine was choking) according to the numbers on my car (since we are talkign about accords not civics) i was able to see that the AEM was far better than the stock intake system, stock intake system w/ no res. and a k&N drop, better than a generic short ram, DC short ram and a generic intake. if i remember correctly the AEM came 1st, followed by the DC short RAM, then the K&N, then the gen. CAI and so on. not that it mattered my readings on why my car was choking was a sensor not reading the amount of air flow correctly.. hence the choking feeling of the car..
what time of year? dyno in front of you off a fan? open air source regardless of fan? car was driven or sat b4 dyno'ing?
my car was done in front of me with the garage door closed with a fan blowing than ran again with the door open allowing the colder (winter air) to come into the bay. also my car was driven in between the mod swap outs pior to dynoing (cuz they were tryn to find why my engine was choking) according to the numbers on my car (since we are talkign about accords not civics) i was able to see that the AEM was far better than the stock intake system, stock intake system w/ no res. and a k&N drop, better than a generic short ram, DC short ram and a generic intake. if i remember correctly the AEM came 1st, followed by the DC short RAM, then the K&N, then the gen. CAI and so on. not that it mattered my readings on why my car was choking was a sensor not reading the amount of air flow correctly.. hence the choking feeling of the car..
you guys believe what you want to. but the same diameter mandrel bent pipe is the same diameter mandrel bent pipe. differences in bend angles, etc... may make about a 1/4 horsepower difference at the very most.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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From: San Diego
Originally posted by AcsRcool
christ, this is turning into a piss poor argument. You guys are missing the point. The original argument was a comparison between the two intakes. AEM or generic. A pipe is definitely not just a pipe. Granted there are companies that have edited their dynos to make their shit look better. That also is not the point of the argument. The point is that superior engineering yields superior results. If the aem puts out 5 bhp and the generic intake puts out 4, Thats a 25 percent boost and thtas the kind of number that engineers love to see. Granted it may not be worth the money for the difference in some cases, but in some cases it most definitely is. I havent seen any 3rd party dynos for the V2 but ive read about the principle that goes into its design and i believe a competent engineering team could leverage that principle to create significant results. This argument will be beaten into the ground forever, and the coating on the pipe may not make much difference, nor will whether you get it off ebay or from AEM (the shapes of these pipes are very similar anyway), but to say a pipe is just a pipe is an uneducated and ignorant statement. Bernoulli and Hemholtz were a lot smarter than most of us and a team of engineers who knows what they knew is a lot more competent in the subject than a few people who own hondas with boltons and nice wheels.
A lot of people on this board know a lot about how cars work but how many of you have been to a design lab and know about the math that goes into their testing? I have. Lets take a concrete example.
At Pratt and Whitney, a leading producer of aircraft engines, they use computers to simulate the behavior and performance of their engines by changing the degree the fan blades are at in the turbine. There are approximately 32-40 fins per engine. With each blade being able to move approximately 7 degrees one degree at a time, this yields more than 10^12 different blade combinations. With the current power of computers, it would take them more than 60 years to test all of those combinations. Using some statistical analysis, they are able to sample these combinations such that they are 99% sure they can get one of the top 5% of combinations by testing 3 or 4 thousand, but they can never be entirely sure they've gotten the best one.
The same principle applies when testing equipment on any engine, there are too many variables to be sure you've gotten the most performance out of it that you possibly can. Personally, I am willing to bet that despite AEMs dyno inflation, they have put more engineering time on their product than the average ebayer, and I'll take superior engineering every time.
christ, this is turning into a piss poor argument. You guys are missing the point. The original argument was a comparison between the two intakes. AEM or generic. A pipe is definitely not just a pipe. Granted there are companies that have edited their dynos to make their shit look better. That also is not the point of the argument. The point is that superior engineering yields superior results. If the aem puts out 5 bhp and the generic intake puts out 4, Thats a 25 percent boost and thtas the kind of number that engineers love to see. Granted it may not be worth the money for the difference in some cases, but in some cases it most definitely is. I havent seen any 3rd party dynos for the V2 but ive read about the principle that goes into its design and i believe a competent engineering team could leverage that principle to create significant results. This argument will be beaten into the ground forever, and the coating on the pipe may not make much difference, nor will whether you get it off ebay or from AEM (the shapes of these pipes are very similar anyway), but to say a pipe is just a pipe is an uneducated and ignorant statement. Bernoulli and Hemholtz were a lot smarter than most of us and a team of engineers who knows what they knew is a lot more competent in the subject than a few people who own hondas with boltons and nice wheels.
A lot of people on this board know a lot about how cars work but how many of you have been to a design lab and know about the math that goes into their testing? I have. Lets take a concrete example.
At Pratt and Whitney, a leading producer of aircraft engines, they use computers to simulate the behavior and performance of their engines by changing the degree the fan blades are at in the turbine. There are approximately 32-40 fins per engine. With each blade being able to move approximately 7 degrees one degree at a time, this yields more than 10^12 different blade combinations. With the current power of computers, it would take them more than 60 years to test all of those combinations. Using some statistical analysis, they are able to sample these combinations such that they are 99% sure they can get one of the top 5% of combinations by testing 3 or 4 thousand, but they can never be entirely sure they've gotten the best one.
The same principle applies when testing equipment on any engine, there are too many variables to be sure you've gotten the most performance out of it that you possibly can. Personally, I am willing to bet that despite AEMs dyno inflation, they have put more engineering time on their product than the average ebayer, and I'll take superior engineering every time.
When deciding on a CAI or anything in life, it is prudent to understand what you are dealing with and research the various alternatives.
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Brooklyn NY
Originally posted by /^Blackmagik^\
so basically, what you're saying is that you're basing your opinion off of differences in dyno runs that a)were not in a controlled environment or b) done identically.
so basically, what you're saying is that you're basing your opinion off of differences in dyno runs that a)were not in a controlled environment or b) done identically.
i used to think the numbers were suppose to be the same regardless of manufactor and i bought the AEM one since it was on sale and for the "LOOKS".
when i asked the stupid question about heat induction is when they redid the runs in front of me again but with the door open (being that we still didnt find the problem we were looking for) so now the back of the fan was facing an open door and blowing at the front of my car instead of the door being closed and just the air in the garage blowing back and forth
