I will be back on tomarrow.

 

Where did I say that I raced? I don't. My car is totally stock for now. When I have money for swapping and turboing, I still won't race. I may X-cross, and just enjoy tinkering with my car, but I am not gonna start street racing.

 

i don't think many people here even race their cars...

 

Yeah it's all driver and I've been to 30 events per year for the past 6 years or so. How many RX7s or Supras have I seen? 1 or 2 in the past 3 years. How many Civics do you see? ALOT! So where are all these performance cars?

As I said the Civic CAN be a performance car for cheap. A performance car doesn't have to have turbo (look at the Lotus Elise which is gracing our shores this year), a performance car doesn't just need two seats (look at the MRS), and a performance car doesn't need high HP numbers to be fun (look at the CRX).

I think your view on performance cars is somewhat skewed. As I say to most people IT'S A FRIGGIN car, why are we all fighting about who's car is better or faster or cooler or My Chevy has 9000 hp and you're Civic has 2hp. We're all hobbiests who all enjoy modifing our cars.

I think what you are getting mixed up with the ricers and arrogant people who mod their car for no performance. But remember it was those Honda/Acura guys who were experimenting with swaps and other mods who started the import evolution. No one really started doing swaps until those guys with Hondas/Acuras dove into it. And we wouldn't be here today with some great companies making great products for the little 4 bangers we all love.

 

who is they? the japanese?


the japanese have been racing civics since the early 80's. (1981 to be exact) older than most folks here...and maybe including you. who were they out to impress? the americans? i doubt it. they wouldnt even give us the "better" cars offered on their shores.

 

offtheheezay, it's simple. My civic coupe is ten years old, I got it when I graduated high school, It has 215,000 miles on it and spent most of it's life slow as hell. My fastest time to date is 13.2 in the 1/4 and I have spent about 20k on it in mods. I could go out and buy a TT Supra tomorrow or even a used NSX if I wanted too but where is the fun in that? Where would I be if I wrecked it? A car of that stature is way too expensive to mod and way too expensive to insure for most young males. MR2's (Turbos) are okay cars but I know a couple of guys on this board that autocross that would hand most heavily modded MR2's their asses on an autocross course. Hell, I watch stock 140HP Miata's do it all the time. Drag race well that's another story but that's like comparing a stock car to a F1 car. Yes, ricers make the scene look bad IMO but to each his own. most civic owners are 25 or under and have little money. Their no worse than V-6 Mustangs with GT badges and dual exhausts. As Far as 240ZX's and 28ZX's go, well My first car was a 1982 280ZX turbo and while I love that car to this day, I would never trade my civic for one. The 240ZX is no better than a civic without a swap. The stock K series motors are turds. Why do some guys like Camaro's and not Mustangs? Same shit. Yes a stock f body will hand most heavily modded civics their ass but that's a stupid comparison. I love all cars but I choose civics for my weekend performance thrills. I often think of selling both my Civic and my CRX and buying a WRX STI, 350Z, but no matter how much horsepower I started off with I would still want more and the thought of making a 500.00 a month car payment plus insurance and dumping 10-20 grand into to make it a monster on the street is rediculous to me. Yes there are several cars that are a better bang for the buck but they all have their ups and downs. As you can see from my signature, I am primarily a Nissan/Honda man but i love anything that performs well. It's all about what you want out of the car. Personally, when I wash my civic I sit back and think, "Damn that's a sweet car". How many peopel have that kind of love for their car?

 

maybe some people enjoy the challenge of trying to get as much power they can from their little 4-banger instead of buying a car already with power.

 

right...i see you haven't been to an autcrossing event...

 

oh by the way...if you have time, check out April 1988 issue of Car and Driver: Sports car comparison under 15k. (before any of the "import" performance following).


they tested a Civic/CRX against the Toyota MR2 against the Pontiac Fiero in STOCK form. remember, this was before "the fast and the furious, clear taillamps and N1 exhausts" ever was invented. 15 inch wheels were still considered exotic sizes.


guess who came out ranking 1?

 

I don't know if I could answer your questions offtheheezay, but maybe I could put a little perspective into it. I have a friend that use to drive a 91 Civic hatch. You could say that this was his first car (one that he could modify anyways). He modded his daily driver to a certain extent but eventually gave up because maintenance was costing more than modifications.

He then stepped up and got a 91 MR2 turbo. Swapped a JDM motor and new turbo setup. The difference was night and day. I've probably made indentations on his passenger seat everytime he hit the throttle. He was happy. Really happy. He was going against Mustangs, Camaros, TT's, modified Civics, Teggys, RSX's, Preludes, Eclipses, etc. and he was handing them their asses to them. Of course there are those occasional losses to an RX7, Supra, Vettes... But at least he knows what he's stacked up against. But this car was not a daily driver. It was too difficult to maintain as a daily driver and too much of a hassle.

Although it is a great car performance wise, it's just not an ideal daily driver. Of course insurance is slightly higher than what he used to pay for the Civic. It's only a 2 seater. Cargo space is virtually non-existant. Premium fuel is a must (most of time, he has to buy an octane booster). He has to warm up the car everytime he starts it up in the morning for a lengthy period of time. So even though you could say that he has a great perfoming vehicle, it's just not suitable for everyday driving/errands. I'm not sure if you take such precautions with your MR2, but if you want to invest that much money into making it go fast, I'd do whatever it takes to keep that car running.

Plus what he spent on the car + speed mods is a lot more than what a civic owner would spend on his car + speed mods. A civic is easily attainable. Heavily supported by the aftermarket. Aesthetically appealing to most consumers. It's also fuel efficient and kinda roomy. You could say that the civic is the entry level vehicle for your first time import enthusiast.

I've had my civic forever (got it new in 93) and still drive it til this day. I love my car. I wish I could make it go faster, but I can't afford a new motor or a new car at this time. I just make due with what I have. It's my daily driver. I can't afford to have the car sit in a shop and stick a new motor with all the go fast parts on it. So until then, I'm happy with my slow civic. It isn't the fastest thing in the world, but I'm happy with it.

Sorry for the long post. h: