it's not that it is hard to tune-- it's just not built for any kind of power, you'll just kill the automatic transmission.

the 5 speed is simply stronger. it is a WASTE OF MONEY to build an auto.

i understand you want to do the whole trial and error thing, but when you've thrown 20k out the window i won't feel sorry for you.

the turbo will kill the NA on the dyno. i'm not talking by like 10hp, i'm talking like 60+, we've been there before and this is by far the best method of making power. it is upgradable. it makes major gains. and it is a bigger bang for the buck. we are in this together and that is the point of the forum.

now could you please keep your posts more concise, use paragraphs please.

 

i know alot of people with turbo cars, and most just buy the 900 kit from ssautochrome and call it a day. needless to say, since they have no working knowlege of motors, they are constantly, sometimes as often as every weekend, rebuilding it, ordering parts etc. i have ridden in alot of them and they are fast. i do not discount the fact the of turbo beats na, but i am talking 5-9 lbs of boost, not the 11-25lbs. i am a driver. i like to use my skills to win races. and i have taken modded na cars and beat lower or improperly tuned turbos. (and even though it isnt nice tosay, but when ya see shoot a rod through the oil pan at 100mph or see it start to smoke like hell or any other mechanical mishap due to stupidity or laziness (not wanting to learn why it broke or how to fix it or prevent it from happening again) it kinda makes me feel good. i do not wish bad things on people, but some of em are cocky and deserving of all they get, they claim to have alot of knowledge, but look dumfounded when they are picking up parts off the street and wondering what they were.)

price to turbo a civic $1500-3500, price to mod a na civic 800-2250. seeing the look on the driver of the turbo after you beat him in a na civic......priceless

i am not knocking the turbo setup, but locally there are a lot of good cars being passed up for awards at shows and competitions simply because they are turboed. seems here lately there are alot of judges looking down their noses.

another thing is, there are alot of cats running hondas and other imports around here that wont race a turbo car. all they have is exhaust, rims (which add at least 500HP) nice paint, maybe cold air, and that is the extent of them. and there are alot of close matchups, but alot of them dont know anything about building a motor to perform. like me... i dont know squat about turbos, just what i have read from many forums and i have seen alot of dyno sheets, but i have not seen any dynoes for highly modded properly tuned na motors. i want to see what i can build for under 3 grand. and i want to pull up beside one of these guys on the interstate and blow the doors off, and get accused of having turbo, or have them ask for my advice on how to make their car perform without turbo) turbo is like anything else. some people want it, others dont. some can afford it some cant. and alot of the people around here that can afford turbo, cant afford to maintain it. some get the main components and try to rig the rest and wonder why the performance isnt there, or why other parts are failing every week.


another big factor.. it is my daily driver, and i dont have the cash for a turbo set up, needless to say, i cannot wait to buy all the parts needed to properly build and tune for turbo, at least not to the extreme that i want to take it. i dont want to waste my time in a stock bottom end pushing 8lbs. but since i cannot afford 900 for pistons and rods to support the turbo i want, mind you i cant drive it on that low of compression while i am saving to buy the turbo. so since i will need bigger injectors and fuel pump and all that other stuff to compliment the turbo anyway i will add it to it, but if i am happy with the performance of my na i will leave it alone. since i have 3 blocks i may build a turbo motor from that later and make a profit and use the cash to build mine the way i want it. so in a nutshell, stock pistons are too slow for me, and turbo is out of my price range for now. since i need a running car, higher compression is my choice. and honestly... if i do plan to turbo a motor, it will be a b20 or h22, something larger than a d16. the walls are just too thin for my liking. or something using a twin turbo setup. but for now, i miss my civic, and really hate driving the parents only car, women just dont dig handicap plates... wonder why that is. thanks again for all the help.

 

i take what you are saying in and i comprehend it all. but you must understand that the gains you will see to any NA mods to this car will be negligible. they are just not made for that kind of duty. the only way to drive any sort of performance out of a D is go FI.

in my mind you would be better off spending the 700 dollars on a one or two day driving course-- building an NA D is a lost cause, if you wanted to go NA b-series with a vtec head i'd be all for it.

to reitterate myself-- the d eries is a SOHC economy motor. the only want to squeeve power out of it is FI.

 

think of the d series as already "built" from the factory. honda just does a good job getting a lot of power out of little engines.. actually i think they set records for most HP per litre a couple times..

 

First, it takes more skill to drive a boosted car than it is an NA car being you have alot more going on and to worry about when racing. And have you beaten any PROPERLY built turbos?, seemed to have left that out..
Try a turbo setup starting under 1000. na tuning for a d-series ANYTHING, $1500+
Or maybe just about every other featured car (if not a majority of them) in magazines or at shows are usually highly modified forced induction setups. If they're turbo setup isnt being acknowledged then perhaps its the design or efficiency of the actual build being of poor quality, or other aspects of their cars styling that get them overseen.
What!? how does an exhaust, RIMS, and a CAI add 500hp? unless you're talking about your must-suck-stangs again which eat gas like mad and are uber-inefficient when compared to these vtecs.
*sigh* first off with 3 grand you will be KEEPING UP with them, and then secondly, they will laugh and wonder why you spent so much to lose a race.
Turbos aren't hard to maintain, superchargers are. If you 'rig' anything on a car it's usually in quick-bad judgement, and I frown upon any 'rigging' of a car being you trust your life to it at ridiculous speeds. And it's up to them buying the crappy parts or something, I haven't heard of that problem, unless maybe they're tuning it improperly??

If you want to NA tune a VTEC, get a B, H, or F series engine, or be prepared for alot of work and money that in the long run you will feel was wasted when these turbo cars you hate so much pull away from you.
Yeah, looks like it..

 

i had 206k miles on my 93 gsr and i had no problems for 8k of those miles being turboed @ 8.5psi... none. i even had it to 12psi a few times and she didnt give me problems. (16g) only reason its gone is because a mustang t-boned the front end into garbage going insanely fast.. and even then the engine still started and the turbo spooled, but insurance totaled it.

there is no replacement for displacement
..except F/I!

theres just no way your going to build a 1.6L economy engine to NA make more power than a bigger engine thats built equally.. forget running against a turbo.

in all technicallity it IS possible to make the d16 really fast NA, but you would have to have insane amounts of money to blow.


i believe theres a k-series rsx running 9s naturally aspirated..

 

lol to most of this forum. i think the 500hp with rims and exhaust was a bad joke....kind of like the stickers add hp one. and if you were in the scene before fast and furious....you should know better that those lame jokes are just plain dumb.

now to answer some of your questions......i had an accord...92 four door. was a five speed. ran 15.3 na this was before all the fast and furious bs as well. i loved that car just because people always accused me of nitrous and i would beat most cars during that era. nowadays...the onlt way to be fast for the straight aways is turboing...or at least people think that. a lot of people.

this is true to an extent. i really dont know what you wnat your car to do. you mention beating turbo cars...then you mentioning track racing.....then you mention v8s...then you mention you have no money (aka not daily driven then) (aka less expensive fast route) then you mention you want street credit for having a na setup. you need to pick one of these and shoot for it. auto trannys dont hold up to gobs amount of power...or should i say moderate power.

i was in the same boat as you awhile back.....my brother always had turbo...i always had na. the fastest setup i had na was a stock ctr motor at 14.5. pretty sad since this was basically 8 years of my life trying to get that. diffrent cars and always dreaming of beating people...when in reality...my car was slow. sure i had some good stuff on some of my cars....but they never lasted a long time. was to much money just to gain the little more amount of power.

now i have a stock b16 turbo. i have a cheap ebay kit with fmu but a really nice turbo. my manifold is cracked...and in process of getting a new one. i just raced a honda f4 9600 i believe) and i got him top end. even though the crotch rocket guy knew i had turbo...his grin to me was priceless. it is such a diffrent feeling of beating a car...then to just hang with it. i can let the other car get the jump...and still pass it a little way down the road. it is fun pulling up to those cocky shitstang owners and giving them a run for thier money. this is all on 7 pounds and a cheap ebay kit that i pieced together for 800....the turbo is the only thing i didnt skimp on...850 for that.

good luck on your d series auto build......

 

please tell me that the accord was using a h22 swap...

 

i am a noob, what does na mean?

 

That or it was one hell of a F22