If you're not satisfied, walk away. They will always chase you down with a better deal.

 

i had a guy chase me down in a car to tell me come back sat and he'll gimme the price i want :chuckles:

 

I used to sell cars. Some of the advice in this thread makes sense, some of it is terrible. (Bring your girlfriened along and have her act like a bitch? Ridiculous.)

Go to the dealer to buy the car two days before the end of the month. They'll be eager to sell another unit that they can report as a sale for that month, and more likely to cut the price to make the deal.

If you finance at the dealer, be aware that there is profit in that part of the deal as well. You can often negotiate a better interest rate, and if you get a rate quoted from a bank or a credit union, the dealer may be willing to match it. They make more money by selling you financing as well as a car.

Find out if there is any money from the factory on the car. Just because the invoice price is X doesn't mean that the dealer can't go below X, especially on a badly-selling model. I don't know how well the Mazda3 is doing, but Ford, Mazda's parent company, often offers cash back and rebates and so on. Edmunds.com has that information listed somewhere.

If you want to be taken seriously by the salesman, conduct yourself professionally. Don't whine or cry or bed or plead. Remain calm and in control. If he asks for any information that you're not ready to give, you can reasonably say "lets talk about that later" or "I'd rather not say." Don't be shady -- if you've declared bankruptcy and you lie about it, they will definitely find out and you will not get what you want out of the deal.

Salesmen do not like to played off of one another. Calling two or more dealerships and asking them to "bid" on your deal is really annoying to a salesman. If you want to get quotes from multiple dealers, do so discreetly.

 

You guys are talking about all of these magic tricks that will help you get the car, and all of them are unnecessary. All that does is draw the process out longer than it has to be. You can get in and out of a car dealership rather quickly.

First thing you do is go in and talk to a sales person. If you get mobbed at the door and don't like the person who greets you, by all means walk past and find someone you think will be easier to deal with. From there, let them know what car you're looking at, and go with them to pick a car out from their inventory. Let them show you the car (assuming they actually know enough about it to show it to you), and then take it for a drive.

After the drive, a good sales person will ask you something along the lines of, "if I can work everything out 100% to your satisfaction, are you ready to take delivery of the car today?" Either that or they will ask you, "what would you like to accomplish today in regards to this car?" If you're there to buy the car, tell them you're there to buy the car. This is assuming of course that they haven't been pestering you a bunch of times up to that point to buy the car. If they do ask you that question, just tell them you want to make sure you like the car first before you try to work out a deal, and then when you decide you do actually want to buy the car you'll talk about numbers.

So, now comes the bargaining. The easiest way to get in and out with a good price is to know what a good price is ahead of time. I get plenty of customers who have no clue what the car costs nor how to negotiate. They ask for some ridiculous number and then when I tell them it can't be done they act as if leaving at that point is going to push me closer to that number. Not at all. It's really quite easy to negotiate a price in a short amount of time. Before you go to the dealership, look online and figure out the invoice price of the car.

When it comes time to talk about price, all you do is make an offer that is below the invoice of the car by whatever amount you feel like ($1500 is a good idea), with the full expectation that the sales person is going to come back with some number which is still above invoice. Also be sure to factor in any rebates (for example, if invoice is $18,000 and there's a $1,000 rebate, invoice is "really" $17,000 and you want to start somewhere below that number).

Once you make an offer, the sales person will sometimes ask you for a deposit. You can either make a deposit or not make a deposit, but it really doesn't matter. You can always get it back and since walking out gives you no more leverage, it's okay to go to that next level of commitment. The sales person will also typically ask you to fill out a credit application at this point. It's okay to fill out the form to save some time, but make it clear to them that you do not want them to actually pull the credit report until after you agree to a price.

After doing all this stuff, they will come back with a counter offer from management. This is by no means the final price, so if it seems high that's because it's supposed to be high. They're not expecting you to accept their counter offer, but at the same time you need to let go of your original offer. It was $1500 below the post-rebate invoice and no dealer is going to do that deal. The thing is, you have $1500 of room to work with and any time you raise your number, the sales person is pretty much obligated to go back to management with a price. Make another offer of like $250 more, and they'll go back with the higher price. Management will come back with another number, maybe right around invoice. At this point they're just looking to bump you by anything they can, so bump your number by another $100. Most likely the floor manager will now accept the price since the sales person has bumped you two times. The only time the floor manager won't do that price is if they're not discounting that particular car below cost yet, or if the sales person thinks there is still money on the table. At the very worst you might have to bump your offer by another $100, but all in all you've spent maybe half an hour at the bargaining table and are still getting the car for about $1000 below invoice.

So now you think you're out of the woods, but that's not the case. Depending on the dealership, they may or may not try to sell you some kind of maintenance plan. Generally speaking you're only going to be doing the manufacturer's recommended scheduled maintenance and any maintenance plan is going to take about 6 years before you break even. They work a bunch of numbers, but just keep in mind that those numbers are BS. If you do plan to keep the car for more than 6 years, the maintenance plan might be worth it.

Now it's time for the finance office. The finance guy is yet another person you're going to have to negotiate with. They're going to offer you a loan with an interest rate higher than the buy rate (i.e. the rate which the bank is actually offering) because that's how they make their commission. Technically they can't lie to you, so you can cut to the chase by saying "skip all the BS with holding interest points on me, and show me the buy rate on this loan." That buy rate is determined by your credit rating, and the finance guy is going to try and make you think that if your credit is less than stellar you have less negotiating power. You are always entitled to the buy rate on the loan. The finance guys also sell things like extended warranties. If you're going to keep the car a long time, it might be worth considering, but again those have a big fat profit margin for the dealership so if you're trying to get it then look to get it for as cheap as possible.

Hopefully at this point you have escaped with a vehicle which you paid below invoice for, you have a loan at no more than the buy rate, and you didn't buy any extra intangibles that you don't need.

Any more questions, I can probably answer those too.

 

well thanks for that ideal perfect scenario Mike :chuckles:

if that is the way it worked all the time no would would ask for advice no


but it does happen. that's pretty close to how it happened when we bought the 330i. we walked in found a sales person we liked, told him what we wanted took it for a test drive. then while talking about the 540i with M sport package that I wanted instead of a wimpy little 325i, I saw a used 330i. Saw the asking price, it was good and made the deal.

picked up the car and paid for the the next day.

of course the sales guy was kind of worried. he called my insurance agent to see make sure we gave him the correct info. of course my agent told him in fact the car is already insured :chuckles:

 

good advice Mike. Where can you find the invoice price? By invoice price you mean what they get the car for and not the sticker price right?

 

Thanks Fatbooty, that was helpful, insightful, and entertaining - well done, I am sure it will help someone at some point in time!

 

www.edmunds.com

also has info on dealer hold backs and any cash to customer or dealer incentives plus any special deals.

 

nuts, meet vice grips.
vice grips, meet nuts.

 

if i can get my own financing the next time i go to buy a car (won't be for a few years), this is my plan.

i'll test drive the cars i want to look at, then get the hell out of the dealership. i'll do this somewhere that i'm not going to buy the car at.

i'll go to a dealership that sells what i want and look around on a Sunday or something when they're closed. if they have the exact car i want (colors, options), i'll write down the info and go home.

the next day, call the dealership and say "you have this car on your lot, this is the stock number, it's this color. here's my only offer...no, i will not come in and discuss it. you have this car, i would like this car at this price. here's my phone number. call me in 1/2 hour and let me know."

i'll also be sure to tell them that i don't plan on negotiating or discussing anything. i will walk in, write a check, sign the paperwork, call my insurance company, and i will leave. nothing else. if they do try to stray from my plan and attempt to negotiate further, i will leave and will not come back unless they agree before i drive off the lot.


unfortunately i couldn't do that this time. i really wanted to. you should've seen the salesman shit himself when i said "what's the dealer buy rate on that loan?" he started getting overly defensive and denying it. i looked him dead in the eyes and said "i KNOW there's a dealer buy rate, and i know this financing can go lower." he was so pissed off he had to walk away and get his finance manager to make the deal.

never did find out the buy rate, but did get interest reduced and price knocked off the car, so in all we did pretty good.