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Secret Service questions high school student on anti-war drawings

Old Apr 29, 2004 | 10:19 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by 9600baud
Overpaid lousy bastids... :down:
pffft.. :slap:
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Old Apr 29, 2004 | 12:16 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by LiLRexen
Well, I was never good at reading deeper into things. Like in English class when they took a classic book and asked you what the author was REALLY saying. Well, I don't know. Black Beauty is a story about a horse and a severed head is a severed head to me. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if this kid was so politically astute then he should have realized the possible implications of his drawings. In highschool, we would draw symbols on our foreheads, peace and anarchy signs and whatnot. But not one of us ever drew a swastika, realizing the possible backlash it would receive. There is a certain amount that people can be pushed and when you cross the line you need to accept the consequences.
No reading deeper into things needed here. It says right there in the article that the head was an effigy and not an actual severed head. If anything the guy is holding a poster of Bush's head on a stick, like at a protest. There is in fact an event which this references, where people in various arab nations including Iraq protest American policies by holding up effigies (i.e. giant papier machet figures) of our leaders and doing assorted things to them.

The kid didn't make any public statements that would incur some kind of backlash. For all we know the only person he showed the notebook to was the teacher who told him to do the assignment in the first place. I mean fer chrissakes, it's not like he ran around sticking posters up on the walls of his school trying to foment a rebellion. He was supposed to keep an art notebook and this is the subject matter he came up with.

When the kid was asked about it by his school district and he told them that it was an effigy of Bush and not actually his severed head, that should have been the end of this.

Although I must say you've demonstrated what this kid's problem is: certain folks' inability to think subjectively. "It's a severed head!" was your initial reaction even though that's not even what the article said in the first place. After several times of me pointing out that it was not actually a severed head not only are you still saying it's a severed head, but also that the kid deserves to be punished for expressing a viewpoint that you don't agree with in the first place and in a manner that you perceieve to evoke something that he didn't intend but in your mind he still did. That is exactly the kind of attitude that screwed over this kid and got him in hot water.
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Old Apr 29, 2004 | 12:38 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by MrFatbooty
No reading deeper into things needed here. It says right there in the article that the head was an effigy and not an actual severed head. If anything the guy is holding a poster of Bush's head on a stick, like at a protest. There is in fact an event which this references, where people in various arab nations including Iraq protest American policies by holding up effigies (i.e. giant papier machet figures) of our leaders and doing assorted things to them.

The kid didn't make any public statements that would incur some kind of backlash. For all we know the only person he showed the notebook to was the teacher who told him to do the assignment in the first place. I mean fer chrissakes, it's not like he ran around sticking posters up on the walls of his school trying to foment a rebellion. He was supposed to keep an art notebook and this is the subject matter he came up with.

When the kid was asked about it by his school district and he told them that it was an effigy of Bush and not actually his severed head, that should have been the end of this.

Although I must say you've demonstrated what this kid's problem is: certain folks' inability to think subjectively. "It's a severed head!" was your initial reaction even though that's not even what the article said in the first place. After several times of me pointing out that it was not actually a severed head not only are you still saying it's a severed head, but also that the kid deserves to be punished for expressing a viewpoint that you don't agree with in the first place and in a manner that you perceieve to evoke something that he didn't intend but in your mind he still did. That is exactly the kind of attitude that screwed over this kid and got him in hot water.
I dunno. I didn't really see the cartoon. And I'm not sure what an "effigy" is, but I suppose if the people who wrote the article want to say it's an effigy, then they can say it all they want. But IMO, a disembodied head of a person stuck on a pike is a pretty clear statement. I believe it was Vlad the Impaler who used that tatic to scare the bejesus out of anybody who wanted to oppose him. Now I'm not saying this kid was out impaling people who looked like the president, but I am saying that I don't think the assignment was to draw political cartoons that could be perceived as a threat to the president of the United States. I do agree, however, that he shouldn't have been punished by the school system. I don't believe that it was their responsibility to punish this kid. They handed their concerns to the proper authorities, who then investigated the matter and found no further cause for alarm. End of matter.

*edit* and even though "it's a severed head" was what i decided to think about it, at least it was my conclusion and not the effigy one I am ferociously redirecting as my own opinion.
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Old Apr 29, 2004 | 01:15 PM
  #64  
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http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=effigy

And I've already pointed out that the article makes no reference of a disembodied head on a pike a la Vlad the Impaler.

"The drawing that drew the most notice showed a man in what appeared to be Middle Eastern-style clothing, holding a rifle. He was also holding a stick with an oversize head of the president on it."

I'm pretty sure that if the kid drew Bush's head impaled on a pike, the article would have mentioned it.
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Old Apr 29, 2004 | 03:56 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by MrFatbooty
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=effigy

And I've already pointed out that the article makes no reference of a disembodied head on a pike a la Vlad the Impaler.

"The drawing that drew the most notice showed a man in what appeared to be Middle Eastern-style clothing, holding a rifle. He was also holding a stick with an oversize head of the president on it."

I'm pretty sure that if the kid drew Bush's head impaled on a pike, the article would have mentioned it.
so, by your same line of resoning, it would be safe to say that the sky isn't blue at all, but green minus the yellow.

the efigy was of a disembodied head on a stick. six of one, half a dozen of the other. you're arguing symantics mike.
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Old Apr 29, 2004 | 04:15 PM
  #66  
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I didn't read all the bullplop in this thread, just skimmed.

I personally find this to be representative of a growing attitude in the United States, that I, for one, find extremely disturbing. Remember MacCarthyism? Same thing, only the watchword has changed (note: I'm not saying this is even nearly the same scale, but that "scare" started with humble beginnings as well). Some Americans think in such simplified terms that everything has to reduced to a basic good/evil dichotomy. To these folks, without an "enemy" they have no purpose, so they'll be damned sure to find an "enemy."
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Old Apr 29, 2004 | 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by white_n_slow
I didn't read all the bullplop in this thread, just skimmed.

I personally find this to be representative of a growing attitude in the United States, that I, for one, find extremely disturbing. Remember MacCarthyism? Same thing, only the watchword has changed (note: I'm not saying this is even nearly the same scale, but that "scare" started with humble beginnings as well). Some Americans think in such simplified terms that everything has to reduced to a basic good/evil dichotomy. To these folks, without an "enemy" they have no purpose, so they'll be damned sure to find an "enemy."
So, what was it?
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Old Apr 29, 2004 | 04:26 PM
  #68  
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what was what? MacCarthyism? :thinking:
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Old Apr 29, 2004 | 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by white_n_slow
what was what? MacCarthyism? :thinking:
Yes, please define it for me.
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Old Apr 29, 2004 | 04:44 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by LiLRexen
Yes, please define it for me.
Witchhunts for unamerican people. McCarthy was the one that lead the great communist hunt to get rid of all those "godless bastards" from the media and government. There was a lot of fingerpointing and senseless blame, and it was used as a political tool for those to slander those not in power.
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