a ponderworthy thought...
Sucka
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Fridley, MN
Um... I thought NoRiCeHeRe = Tirod...?
I'll be the first to admit that what I believe, may, in fact be completely wrong. What some people do that is incredibly ridiculous, is always making the assumption that they are right.
I'll be the first to admit that what I believe, may, in fact be completely wrong. What some people do that is incredibly ridiculous, is always making the assumption that they are right.
:gives:
RIP Woong.
Joined: May 2000
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From: san jose, ca
Originally Posted by Derek
in B.O.B. we trust :rick:
anyway..
a "ponderworthy" thought is why are some of you so f*cking closeminded about religion? damn...this message board is the last place where i want to see some propoganda bullshit.
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Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: SLC, Ut
Originally Posted by DB7 2.0
this is not the proper way to represent yourself and your religion tirod.
I find it funny that most of you guy's are all about "free speech" but when it comes to religion, you feel someone is pushing their religion upon you when they bring up an interesting point. To me that seems that you aren't sure what you believe so you get defensive when someone has a thought you aren't for sure about yourself.
RIP Woong.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,284
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From: san jose, ca
Originally Posted by NoRiCeHeRe
Unless something has changed, Tirod doesn't offiliate with a specific religion. :thumbup:
I find it funny that most of you guy's are all about "free speech" but when it comes to religion, you feel someone is pushing their religion upon you when they bring up an interesting point. To me that seems that you aren't sure what you believe so you get defensive when someone has a thought you aren't for sure about yourself.
I find it funny that most of you guy's are all about "free speech" but when it comes to religion, you feel someone is pushing their religion upon you when they bring up an interesting point. To me that seems that you aren't sure what you believe so you get defensive when someone has a thought you aren't for sure about yourself.
more like an interesting OPINION.
and i'm quite sure of what i believe in.
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snitches get stitches
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 49,696
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From: Portland, OR
Skyler you are so full of shit its ridiculous. If you are going to refute and say what I'm quoting is wrong, at least prove it wrong. Anyone can say "oh, you misquoted that, you're wrong", but you've got to prove it to have any validation. If those were quoted wrong, so sue me. I got it from an online source, and I checked out the background of one of the quotes, and it was legit, so unless you can prove my quotes are wrong, some of which are taken from the Mormon Doctrine and the History of the Church, shut the **** up.
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Before I start let me make one thing clear. I was wrong on saying the quotes were false. The context in which they were taken were false. Thank you.
IN MORMONISM THERE ARE MANY GODS
"In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it....In all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods." -Joseph Smith, (Founder and First Prophet), History of the Church, Vol 6, pp. 308,474.
"Respecting modern times, the term God in of itself is rather ambiguous. If we are to define it in terms of individual identity, then Mormons do indeed worship three distinct beings, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. If, however, we are to define God by purpose, character, power, and wisdom, then we worship only one God, more clearly defined by the term Godhead. This is borne out by The Testimony of Three Witnesses in the front of the Book of Mormon (men who clearly believed in three separate personages) when they wrote, "and the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God." "
MORMONISM'S GOD WAS ONCE A MAN
"God himself was one as we are now, and is an exalted man...I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form...like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man...He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth." -Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 305.
"This is a simple context problem. What is man? With great sarcasm, Hamlet answered that question thus, "What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason! How infinite in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel! In apprehension how like a god!" The Bible agrees with Hamlet's disdainful evaluation. Among other things, man is described as unfaithful (Hosea 5:3), stubborn (Isaiah 48:4), prideful (Isaiah 2:17), and easily deceived (Ephesians 4:14). In fact, the Bible is full of examples of man's weaknesses.
No, God is definitely not a man. He does not lie and thus need repentance (Numbers 23:19) or lose his temper (Hosea 11:9). He is God, free from mortal foibles. For that, we should all be grateful."
MORMONISM'S GOD IS LIMITED
"The universe is filled with vast numbers of intelligences, and we further learn that Elohim is God simply because all of these intelligences honor and sustain him as such...if He should ever do anything to violate the confidence or "sense of justice" of these intelligences, they would promptly withdraw their support, and the "power" of God would disintegrateóHe would cease to be God."
- W. Cleon Skousen (Former BYU Professor & founder of Mormon-based National Center For Constitutional Studies), The First 2000 Years , p. 355.
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans,"- Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22.
"If God possesses a form, that form is of necessity of definite proportions, and therefore of limited extension and space. It is impossible for Him to occupy at one time more than one space of such limits."- James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, page 43.
I have no argument against this because it makes sense to me. God is all knowing, etc, and would never cease to be God, because loosing a sense of justice would never happen.
MORMONISM SAYS MAN MAY BECOME GOD
"Here then is eternal life...to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you...To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of God." -Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol 6, page 306.
Why is this hard to understand?
MORMONS SAY GOD WAS MARRIED
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers...Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father." -McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 547, 742.
Why is this hard to understand?
AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE DENIED
"Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errorsómany plain and precious things were deleted, in consequence of which error and falsehood poured into the churches. One of the great heresies of modern Christendom is the unfounded assumption that the Bible contains all of the inspired teachings now extant among men."-McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 82,83.
Through so many years without devine intervention, and in so many different religion's hands, the Bible is sure to loose context and content. Also the Bible is NOT the only word from God. You have to understand fully how the Book of Mormon came to be, to understand that it IS in fact another testament of God. Also: "The doctrine of the Church can be found in all of its standard works, especially in the Bible. The Bible is the only place we can go for the stories of the flood, the exodus, the reign of David, the wisdom of Solomon, the ministry of Elijah, the writings of Paul, John's vision of the last days, and perhaps most importantly, the life of the Savior and the teachings of his mortal ministry. To say that Mormon doctrine is not found in the Bible is dishonest."
JOSEPH'S ARROGANCE
"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." -Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol 6, pp.408,409).
For what the Prophet's been through, Im surprised he didnt go off further. Everyone's been through a time where they've had enough. Saying such things as this is easy, given his position. However, like you and me, he is human and has humanly emotions. A Prophet of God is not acting as prophet 100% of the time. This is my personal belief on the quote.
LDS PERFORM RESURRECTIONS
"If we ask who will stand at the head of the resurrection in this last dispensation, the answer isóJoseph Smith, Junior, the Prophet of God. He is the man who will be resurrected and receive the keys of the resurrection, and he will seal this authority upon others, and they will hunt up their friends and resurrect them." -Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 116.
SUN & MOON INHABITED
"Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another... contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a prophet. As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we doóthat they live generally to near the age of a 1000 years, He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style."- O. B. Huntington, Young Women's Journal, Vol. 3, p. 264, 1892
"Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon?... So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it" -B. Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 271
"There is no evidence from Joseph Smith's day that he ever said such a thing. The sole source for this claim is one person's journal entry from 1881 that was published in 1892. Joseph died in 1844. Can we trust an alleged reminiscence separated by decades and unattested by anyone else? It's not the kind of thing that ought to make anyone lose an iota of faith or sleep."
"To me the surprising fact is that there have not been found more Mormon declarations of belief in an inhabited moon. Several of the earliest revelations, in 1830 (Moses 1) and in 1832 (D&C 76), committed Mormonism to a belief in many inhabited worlds. But, Mormons it appears, seldom speculated about which of the heavenly bodies were so inhabited. Those who believed in moonmen likely did so because of the prevalence of that view in their day rather than because they believed Joseph Smith had been inspired to reveal the existence of such beings. From the available sources one could could hardly conclude that belief in an inhabited moon was general among Mormons of the nineteenth century, and further, to conclude that it was a basic position either of Joseph Smith or Mormonism is certainly false."
TOTAL PERFECTION DEMANDED
"We also have to forsake the sin and never repeat it, not even in our minds...In order to remain forgiven, we must never commit the sin again." - Uniform System for Teaching Families, pp.35,36
"In other words, If there is one divine law that he does not keep he is barred from participating in the Kingdom, and figuratively guilty of all, since he is denied all." -Joseph Fielding Smith (Prophet), Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol.3, p. 26.
"DIVINE LAW".... durr
feel free to check out these responses to other Anti-Mormon criticism:
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/index.htm
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.shtml
IN MORMONISM THERE ARE MANY GODS
"In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it....In all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods." -Joseph Smith, (Founder and First Prophet), History of the Church, Vol 6, pp. 308,474.
"Respecting modern times, the term God in of itself is rather ambiguous. If we are to define it in terms of individual identity, then Mormons do indeed worship three distinct beings, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. If, however, we are to define God by purpose, character, power, and wisdom, then we worship only one God, more clearly defined by the term Godhead. This is borne out by The Testimony of Three Witnesses in the front of the Book of Mormon (men who clearly believed in three separate personages) when they wrote, "and the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God." "
MORMONISM'S GOD WAS ONCE A MAN
"God himself was one as we are now, and is an exalted man...I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form...like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man...He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth." -Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 305.
"This is a simple context problem. What is man? With great sarcasm, Hamlet answered that question thus, "What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason! How infinite in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel! In apprehension how like a god!" The Bible agrees with Hamlet's disdainful evaluation. Among other things, man is described as unfaithful (Hosea 5:3), stubborn (Isaiah 48:4), prideful (Isaiah 2:17), and easily deceived (Ephesians 4:14). In fact, the Bible is full of examples of man's weaknesses.
No, God is definitely not a man. He does not lie and thus need repentance (Numbers 23:19) or lose his temper (Hosea 11:9). He is God, free from mortal foibles. For that, we should all be grateful."
MORMONISM'S GOD IS LIMITED
"The universe is filled with vast numbers of intelligences, and we further learn that Elohim is God simply because all of these intelligences honor and sustain him as such...if He should ever do anything to violate the confidence or "sense of justice" of these intelligences, they would promptly withdraw their support, and the "power" of God would disintegrateóHe would cease to be God."
- W. Cleon Skousen (Former BYU Professor & founder of Mormon-based National Center For Constitutional Studies), The First 2000 Years , p. 355.
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans,"- Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22.
"If God possesses a form, that form is of necessity of definite proportions, and therefore of limited extension and space. It is impossible for Him to occupy at one time more than one space of such limits."- James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, page 43.
I have no argument against this because it makes sense to me. God is all knowing, etc, and would never cease to be God, because loosing a sense of justice would never happen.
MORMONISM SAYS MAN MAY BECOME GOD
"Here then is eternal life...to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you...To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of God." -Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol 6, page 306.
Why is this hard to understand?
MORMONS SAY GOD WAS MARRIED
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers...Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father." -McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 547, 742.
Why is this hard to understand?
AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE DENIED
"Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errorsómany plain and precious things were deleted, in consequence of which error and falsehood poured into the churches. One of the great heresies of modern Christendom is the unfounded assumption that the Bible contains all of the inspired teachings now extant among men."-McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 82,83.
Through so many years without devine intervention, and in so many different religion's hands, the Bible is sure to loose context and content. Also the Bible is NOT the only word from God. You have to understand fully how the Book of Mormon came to be, to understand that it IS in fact another testament of God. Also: "The doctrine of the Church can be found in all of its standard works, especially in the Bible. The Bible is the only place we can go for the stories of the flood, the exodus, the reign of David, the wisdom of Solomon, the ministry of Elijah, the writings of Paul, John's vision of the last days, and perhaps most importantly, the life of the Savior and the teachings of his mortal ministry. To say that Mormon doctrine is not found in the Bible is dishonest."
JOSEPH'S ARROGANCE
"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." -Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol 6, pp.408,409).
For what the Prophet's been through, Im surprised he didnt go off further. Everyone's been through a time where they've had enough. Saying such things as this is easy, given his position. However, like you and me, he is human and has humanly emotions. A Prophet of God is not acting as prophet 100% of the time. This is my personal belief on the quote.
LDS PERFORM RESURRECTIONS
"If we ask who will stand at the head of the resurrection in this last dispensation, the answer isóJoseph Smith, Junior, the Prophet of God. He is the man who will be resurrected and receive the keys of the resurrection, and he will seal this authority upon others, and they will hunt up their friends and resurrect them." -Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 116.
SUN & MOON INHABITED
"Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another... contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a prophet. As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we doóthat they live generally to near the age of a 1000 years, He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style."- O. B. Huntington, Young Women's Journal, Vol. 3, p. 264, 1892
"Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon?... So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it" -B. Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 271
"There is no evidence from Joseph Smith's day that he ever said such a thing. The sole source for this claim is one person's journal entry from 1881 that was published in 1892. Joseph died in 1844. Can we trust an alleged reminiscence separated by decades and unattested by anyone else? It's not the kind of thing that ought to make anyone lose an iota of faith or sleep."
"To me the surprising fact is that there have not been found more Mormon declarations of belief in an inhabited moon. Several of the earliest revelations, in 1830 (Moses 1) and in 1832 (D&C 76), committed Mormonism to a belief in many inhabited worlds. But, Mormons it appears, seldom speculated about which of the heavenly bodies were so inhabited. Those who believed in moonmen likely did so because of the prevalence of that view in their day rather than because they believed Joseph Smith had been inspired to reveal the existence of such beings. From the available sources one could could hardly conclude that belief in an inhabited moon was general among Mormons of the nineteenth century, and further, to conclude that it was a basic position either of Joseph Smith or Mormonism is certainly false."
TOTAL PERFECTION DEMANDED
"We also have to forsake the sin and never repeat it, not even in our minds...In order to remain forgiven, we must never commit the sin again." - Uniform System for Teaching Families, pp.35,36
"In other words, If there is one divine law that he does not keep he is barred from participating in the Kingdom, and figuratively guilty of all, since he is denied all." -Joseph Fielding Smith (Prophet), Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol.3, p. 26.
"DIVINE LAW".... durr
feel free to check out these responses to other Anti-Mormon criticism:
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/index.htm
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.shtml