sh vs base?
Snapping bolts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 0
From: Orange County, Ca
I agree with you, that it was meant to be an overview, but from what I've been reading on these forums, alot of people seem to downplay the advantages of the SH by saying it's too expensive, and then proceed to say that the base is a better choice. It's not by any means.
First, I do all my own work, and I know MOST members do not, however I stated that the difference in a clutch job is no more than $100-200 more expensive than the base... So regardless of whether I do my own work, your point that the SH is more expensive is weak. Is $100 to $200 over the course of 3-5 years that much more expensive?? I don't think so...
Second, if I'm in the minority about the kit, then why have I NEVER seen one?
EVERY base model I've ever seen had NO kit, so go figure. Besides, I'd rather have the better model WITH the side-skirts than a base with wanna-be SH side-skirts.
Third, the amount of weight here is so minute that the difference in acceleration times would be impossible to compare. It comes down to driver at this point, because the difference in reaction time alone would be enough to offset the apparent increase in acceleration of the base model.
Same thing for your wheel comparison.
Finally, your idea about the quaife is unfounded. It is aftermarket, expensive to buy and install, so there is no comparison.
The ATTS is better than an LSD for many reasons. The only thing LSD has over the ATTS is that it can handle extra power, whereas the ATTS cannot.
In the end, the bottom line is the SH is better in every way, as I've shown.
Stop hating
First, I do all my own work, and I know MOST members do not, however I stated that the difference in a clutch job is no more than $100-200 more expensive than the base... So regardless of whether I do my own work, your point that the SH is more expensive is weak. Is $100 to $200 over the course of 3-5 years that much more expensive?? I don't think so...
Second, if I'm in the minority about the kit, then why have I NEVER seen one?
EVERY base model I've ever seen had NO kit, so go figure. Besides, I'd rather have the better model WITH the side-skirts than a base with wanna-be SH side-skirts.
Third, the amount of weight here is so minute that the difference in acceleration times would be impossible to compare. It comes down to driver at this point, because the difference in reaction time alone would be enough to offset the apparent increase in acceleration of the base model.
Same thing for your wheel comparison.
Finally, your idea about the quaife is unfounded. It is aftermarket, expensive to buy and install, so there is no comparison.
The ATTS is better than an LSD for many reasons. The only thing LSD has over the ATTS is that it can handle extra power, whereas the ATTS cannot.
In the end, the bottom line is the SH is better in every way, as I've shown.
Stop hating
BTW, not hating at all, just having a discussion.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
From: Allentown PA, - Phila, PA
This is getting pointless, you just keep repeating yourself. I've answered all your points while you just keep rephrasing yourself. The only points which you've answered are a not supported by anything other than "I've never seen it, I don't think, ect" Regarding the ATTS being "Better for many reasons", please list some. I'm quite curious. Could it be the PITA oil filter replacements? Could it be because the ATTS system goes haywire when improper size tires are used? And finally, just to leave the thread on a positive note, I leave you with two, count them, two Base Preludes with OEM kits. Together OMG.
BTW, not hating at all, just having a discussion.
BTW, not hating at all, just having a discussion.
Your point about the LSD is completely pointless, as they do not come stock. Period.
So the ONLY way you could possibly get a base model to handle at least on par with the SH would be to completely upgrade the suspension and get an LSD. Then your ride goes to hell.
Next, the only way you can get the base to look as nice as the SH is to spend MORE money on a kit that has to be installed. Again, the SH comes from the factory with all of this, so why are you trying to downplay the SH body molding and make the kit look so much better? More money and more work, no thanks!
Name one thing that I re-phrased? I simply said I've never seen the kit on a prelude before. Sorry, but I guess no one has them here in SE PA...
For the weight advantage you tried to tell me that ONE pound on the wheels, and maybe an extra 100lbs IF THAT on the SH would cause the base to beat it EVERY time in a straight line race. Won't happen. The differences in weight are so small that driver error will win or lose the race, period.
Finally to address the ATTS system...
An LSD is a "band-aid" that helps to fix the problem of understeer.
ATTS uses the laws of physics and computer control to calculate the amount of EXTRA acceleration on the outside wheel that is needed to give the car a neutral handling balance, and carry the car through the curve.
Here are some things it has over the LSD...
1. Electronic control
2. Ability to transfer up to 80% of the torque to the OUTSIDE wheel
3. Will notify you of a problem with the wheels (low pressure, donut) before you cause an accident
It comes down to preference, but again you are trying to argue that an LSD equipped base Prelude is a better car than the SH.
There is no Prelude from the factory that has an LSD. So you're argument is pointless.
Again, SH >> Base, period.
Finally, I would just like to say I am so adamant about the SH being better because I have experience with getting "base" models and trying to make them better, and on par with the more expensive top of line models...
It is not the same.
I have a 93 Civic DX with B16/GSR swap, turbo, suspension, interior, wheels, basically everything... I will tell you from the door, I would rather have the EX model civic with the sunroof, and all the little things that make a top line model THAT much better. In this case the EX has everything from a sunroof to bigger, beefy-er sway bars.
Snapping bolts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 0
From: Orange County, Ca
I know it's getting pointless, so stop trying to make the base look better than the SH cause it's not... LOL
Your point about the LSD is completely pointless, as they do not come stock. Period.
So the ONLY way you could possibly get a base model to handle at least on par with the SH would be to completely upgrade the suspension and get an LSD. Then your ride goes to hell.
Next, the only way you can get the base to look as nice as the SH is to spend MORE money on a kit that has to be installed. Again, the SH comes from the factory with all of this, so why are you trying to downplay the SH body molding and make the kit look so much better? More money and more work, no thanks!
Name one thing that I re-phrased? I simply said I've never seen the kit on a prelude before. Sorry, but I guess no one has them here in SE PA...
For the weight advantage you tried to tell me that ONE pound on the wheels, and maybe an extra 100lbs IF THAT on the SH would cause the base to beat it EVERY time in a straight line race. Won't happen. The differences in weight are so small that driver error will win or lose the race, period.
Finally to address the ATTS system...
An LSD is a "band-aid" that helps to fix the problem of understeer.
ATTS uses the laws of physics and computer control to calculate the amount of EXTRA acceleration on the outside wheel that is needed to give the car a neutral handling balance, and carry the car through the curve.
Here are some things it has over the LSD...
1. Electronic control
2. Ability to transfer up to 80% of the torque to the OUTSIDE wheel
3. Will notify you of a problem with the wheels (low pressure, donut) before you cause an accident
It comes down to preference, but again you are trying to argue that an LSD equipped base Prelude is a better car than the SH.
There is no Prelude from the factory that has an LSD. So you're argument is pointless.
Again, SH >> Base, period.
Finally, I would just like to say I am so adamant about the SH being better because I have experience with getting "base" models and trying to make them better, and on par with the more expensive top of line models...
It is not the same.
I have a 93 Civic DX with B16/GSR swap, turbo, suspension, interior, wheels, basically everything... I will tell you from the door, I would rather have the EX model civic with the sunroof, and all the little things that make a top line model THAT much better. In this case the EX has everything from a sunroof to bigger, beefy-er sway bars.
Your point about the LSD is completely pointless, as they do not come stock. Period.
So the ONLY way you could possibly get a base model to handle at least on par with the SH would be to completely upgrade the suspension and get an LSD. Then your ride goes to hell.
Next, the only way you can get the base to look as nice as the SH is to spend MORE money on a kit that has to be installed. Again, the SH comes from the factory with all of this, so why are you trying to downplay the SH body molding and make the kit look so much better? More money and more work, no thanks!
Name one thing that I re-phrased? I simply said I've never seen the kit on a prelude before. Sorry, but I guess no one has them here in SE PA...
For the weight advantage you tried to tell me that ONE pound on the wheels, and maybe an extra 100lbs IF THAT on the SH would cause the base to beat it EVERY time in a straight line race. Won't happen. The differences in weight are so small that driver error will win or lose the race, period.
Finally to address the ATTS system...
An LSD is a "band-aid" that helps to fix the problem of understeer.
ATTS uses the laws of physics and computer control to calculate the amount of EXTRA acceleration on the outside wheel that is needed to give the car a neutral handling balance, and carry the car through the curve.
Here are some things it has over the LSD...
1. Electronic control
2. Ability to transfer up to 80% of the torque to the OUTSIDE wheel
3. Will notify you of a problem with the wheels (low pressure, donut) before you cause an accident
It comes down to preference, but again you are trying to argue that an LSD equipped base Prelude is a better car than the SH.
There is no Prelude from the factory that has an LSD. So you're argument is pointless.
Again, SH >> Base, period.
Finally, I would just like to say I am so adamant about the SH being better because I have experience with getting "base" models and trying to make them better, and on par with the more expensive top of line models...
It is not the same.
I have a 93 Civic DX with B16/GSR swap, turbo, suspension, interior, wheels, basically everything... I will tell you from the door, I would rather have the EX model civic with the sunroof, and all the little things that make a top line model THAT much better. In this case the EX has everything from a sunroof to bigger, beefy-er sway bars.
I believe you might have heard the phrase "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Again, regardless, if I owned a Base or SH, the OEM kit is something I would be interested in purchasing. Installation?, Its a few clips and bolts, plus remember, both of us do our own work.
I don't know why you're making such a bid deal of the weight difference between the wheels. If you take the time to read my original post, I just mentioned that I like the way they look better compared to SH wheels, and as a fun fact, I included the weight difference.
Again, about the ATTS.
Would you rather have an open diff when driving in a straight line and an LSD in the turns? Or, would you prefer a limited slip (especially on wet or snowy roads) at all times? I think the answer is clear. Like you mentioned, the ATTS is electronically controlled, thats one more (and expensive) system on the car that can malfunction. I'm not 100% sure on the power transfer so I'll just give you that. Do I really want or need the ATTS system to "warn" me of driving on the spare or because of having low tire presure by going haywire? I'll pass thanks.
The comparison of your DX to an EX or even Si is unjustified in this discussion. This is because of the drastic changes between the models (as you mentioned moonroof, PW, PD rear sway ect.), where as the changes between the Base and SH are so inconspicuous a normal person daily driving both vehicles would probably not even notice the difference.
Last edited by Mkazm83; Mar 22, 2007 at 08:36 PM.
98PreludeSh
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Get what you want. If you want a handling car get the sh. If you want to turbo or go fast in a straight line get the base. If you get a base use the money you save to paint the skirting cause it looks tacky as hell with gray trim. Buy a factory spoiler and a set of aftermarket wheels too cause base rims are pretty fugly looking. To each his own but i really hate slant spoke wheels. Sh rims are lighter too by the way.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 901
Likes: 1
From: CA
the SH also has a diffrent suspension then the base model, the SH is the choice as they are 5sp only and since it's a used car it's not going to be that much more then the base, But since these cars 6-10 years old now I would pick the car that is in better condition rather then the trim level.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
From: Allentown PA, - Phila, PA
I'm not sure what your views are on upgrading the suspension, but cut springs on stock shocks do not constitute an upgrade. I'm not sure why you make shitty ride synonymous with an upgraded suspension. Regardless if I had a Base or SH, suspension is one thing I would not cheap out on. Perhaps you can elaborate?
I believe you might have heard the phrase "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Again, regardless, if I owned a Base or SH, the OEM kit is something I would be interested in purchasing. Installation?, Its a few clips and bolts, plus remember, both of us do our own work.
I don't know why you're making such a bid deal of the weight difference between the wheels. If you take the time to read my original post, I just mentioned that I like the way they look better compared to SH wheels, and as a fun fact, I included the weight difference.
Again, about the ATTS.
Would you rather have an open diff when driving in a straight line and an LSD in the turns? Or, would you prefer a limited slip (especially on wet or snowy roads) at all times? I think the answer is clear. Like you mentioned, the ATTS is electronically controlled, thats one more (and expensive) system on the car that can malfunction. I'm not 100% sure on the power transfer so I'll just give you that. Do I really want or need the ATTS system to "warn" me of driving on the spare or because of having low tire presure by going haywire? I'll pass thanks.
The comparison of your DX to an EX or even Si is unjustified in this discussion. This is because of the drastic changes between the models (as you mentioned moonroof, PW, PD rear sway ect.), where as the changes between the Base and SH are so inconspicuous a normal person daily driving both vehicles would probably not even notice the difference.
I believe you might have heard the phrase "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Again, regardless, if I owned a Base or SH, the OEM kit is something I would be interested in purchasing. Installation?, Its a few clips and bolts, plus remember, both of us do our own work.
I don't know why you're making such a bid deal of the weight difference between the wheels. If you take the time to read my original post, I just mentioned that I like the way they look better compared to SH wheels, and as a fun fact, I included the weight difference.
Again, about the ATTS.
Would you rather have an open diff when driving in a straight line and an LSD in the turns? Or, would you prefer a limited slip (especially on wet or snowy roads) at all times? I think the answer is clear. Like you mentioned, the ATTS is electronically controlled, thats one more (and expensive) system on the car that can malfunction. I'm not 100% sure on the power transfer so I'll just give you that. Do I really want or need the ATTS system to "warn" me of driving on the spare or because of having low tire presure by going haywire? I'll pass thanks.
The comparison of your DX to an EX or even Si is unjustified in this discussion. This is because of the drastic changes between the models (as you mentioned moonroof, PW, PD rear sway ect.), where as the changes between the Base and SH are so inconspicuous a normal person daily driving both vehicles would probably not even notice the difference.
I believe in getting a good suspension, but not spending upwards of $2000 just to have handling somewhat on par with an SH.
My point in this entire argument is that you are suggesting things you need to buy extra, AFTER you already purchased the car. If you have a choice to get Honda quality factory parts and a Honda engineered suspension OR buy any aftermarket suspension, I would choose the Honda any day. I'm guessing you haven't learned that Honda parts & engineering are much better than anything aftermarket. You will, you just need some more experience.
For the kit, again you are suggesting to spend MORE than you need to. Granted it may look nice, but most buyers will likely not go out of their way to buy and install a kit when you can get the SH from the factory with the painted moldings.
You made a big deal about the weight... I'm simply telling you that you're quotes on weight differences between the base and SH are moot. The weight is negligible, and will have no appreciable effect on the acceleration. Ambient pressure, humidity, temperature and most importantly driver skill will determine the accelration of the car, not an extra 5lbs per wheel...
Besides, I like the SH wheels much better.
And for the ATTS, just cause it's electronic doesn't mean failure.
"What I would rather have" here is a poor argument. While the LSD would be nice, I am not about to buy and then install an LSD when I could just go buy an ATTS equipped Lude. Again, you are suggesting more $$ where it is not needed.
In addition, I'm not sure about you, but I use my Prelude as a DD, so I'm not about to go and install an LSD so I can drive to work faster. I have a Civic to play with.
Finally, the comparison between the EX and DX civics is not unjustified. Yes, the list of differences between the EX and DX may be longer, but the same idea applies. ATTS transforms the handling of the car so much, that to get comparable increases in performance between the EX and DX civics the Honda engineers would have to constitute an increase in wheel size, sway bar diameter, etc. Moral of the story is to buy the
So I'm done arguing this thread. What it really comes down to is preference.
I would rather by the Honda engineered factory product, with all of the available options, than to buy a base model and proceed to try and change the dynamics of the car with aftermarket parts.
I've been there and done that. It is not the way to go.
Unless you are strictly going to increase your power output (beyond the ability of the ATTS to function) OR install an expensive LSD unit, then get the SH.
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Amherst Ma.
Hello all, Wow! Is all I have to say you all seem to be very passionate about your Preludes. I respect that. Not to piss anyone of but I just sold an Item on ebay to a kid who has an SH model and he called me and we spoke for a bit on the phone and I asked him was the SH really that much of a deference then the Base (Which I have never driven an SH) So I asked and he went on and on telling me how he wished he never bought a used SH because he had to replace the whole ATTS system and it set him back a lot. So I guess if I was looking to buy a brand new car the SH would be the one. But if I was looking to buy a used Prelude that was to be modifed I would buy the base. My theory is why spend more money on something that I am going to change anyway. Ps (Just a thought) I want to make sure all understand that this is just my opinion.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
From: Allentown PA, - Phila, PA
Hello all, Wow! Is all I have to say you all seem to be very passionate about your Preludes. I respect that. Not to piss anyone of but I just sold an Item on ebay to a kid who has an SH model and he called me and we spoke for a bit on the phone and I asked him was the SH really that much of a deference then the Base (Which I have never driven an SH) So I asked and he went on and on telling me how he wished he never bought a used SH because he had to replace the whole ATTS system and it set him back a lot. So I guess if I was looking to buy a brand new car the SH would be the one. But if I was looking to buy a used Prelude that was to be modifed I would buy the base. My theory is why spend more money on something that I am going to change anyway. Ps (Just a thought) I want to make sure all understand that this is just my opinion.
But on the contrary, how do you know the "kid" didn't ruin the ATTS himself?
He is a "kid" after all...
I bought my 97 SH used with 124k miles. I now have ~142k miles.
I haven't had a SINGLE problem with the ATTS, nor has the car had any service on the ATTS before I bought it, as I have all of the service paperwork from the first (and only) owner.
And I will tell you it was owned by a college student who drive the hell outta the car. Cause when I got the car the tires had like zero tread on the outer edges of the tire, hence lots of hard cornering. Still no problems.
So, it's up to you to take some "kids" advice, but you really should drive one before you go making conclusions about the SH.
Honestly I doubt anyone who drives the SH would then want to buy the Base model. And in your case, since you never drove an SH, then you definitely need to. It handles so much better.