Would you ask a plumber to...
CHRISTMASTIME IN IRAQ
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From: Bay Area
http://www.economist.com/world/unite...ry_id=12342127
Economists that are have had input on Obama's tax plan:
# Jason Furman (director of economic policy) source bio
# Austan Goolsbee (senior economic policy advisor), University of Chicago tax policy expert
# Karen Kornbluh (policy director)
# David Cutler, Harvard health policy expert
# Jeff Liebman, Harvard welfare expert
# Michael Froman, Citigroup executive
# Daniel Tarullo, Georgetown law professor
# David Romer, Berkeley macroeconomist
# Christina Romer, Berkeley economic historian
# Richard Thaler, University of Chicago behavioral finance expert
# Robert Rubin, former Treasury Secretary
# Larry Summers, former Treasury Secretary
# Alan Blinder, former Vice-chairman of the Federal Reserve
# Jared Bernstein, Economic Policy Institute labor economist
# James Galbraith, University of Texas macroeconomist
# Paul Volcker, Chairman of the Federal Reserve 1979-1987
# Laura Tyson, Berkeley international economist, Bill Clinton economic adviser
# Robert Reich, Berkeley public policy professor, former Secretary of Labor
# Peter Henry, Stanford international economist
# Gene Sperling, former White House economic adviser
# Heidi Hartmann, President, Institute for Women's Policy Research
Economists who haven't assisted Obama, but support his policies
* Brad Delong, Berkeley macroeconomist
* Joseph Stiglitz, 2001 Nobel laureate
* Edmund Phelps, 2006 Nobel laureate
* Ray Fair, Yale macroeconomist
* Dan McFadden, 2000 Nobel laureate
* Robert Solow, 1987 Nobel laureate
http://econ4obama.blogspot.com/2008/...-economic.html
Out of 523 economists that are US citizens and members of the AEA plan to vote for Obama
http://econ4obama.blogspot.com/2008/...mists-for.html
I hope your foot doesn't taste too bad in your mouth.
Anyone who has done any research on tax burden understands that...
The top 1 percent of taxpayers (adjusted gross incomes "AGI" above $196,000), pay 29 percent of all income taxes.
The top 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI above $91,000), pay almost half of the federal income tax burden.
The top 10 percent of taxpayers, pay over 70% of federal income tax burden.
By contrast, the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers (AGI below $22,000), pay less than 5 percent of all income taxes.
Senator Obama's proposed tax cut to 95% of America is not mathematically possible.
All of us need to remind ourselves of the fact that Bush's 2001 Tax Cuts are working. The IRS reports new all-time record highs in tax revenue collected in each and every year since 2004. And they are fair, the upper 10 percent of all taxpayers are paying over 71% of income taxes collected -- up from 66% in 2000.
We must NOT let Bush's tax cuts expire in 2010!
The top 1 percent of taxpayers (adjusted gross incomes "AGI" above $196,000), pay 29 percent of all income taxes.
The top 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI above $91,000), pay almost half of the federal income tax burden.
The top 10 percent of taxpayers, pay over 70% of federal income tax burden.
By contrast, the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers (AGI below $22,000), pay less than 5 percent of all income taxes.
Senator Obama's proposed tax cut to 95% of America is not mathematically possible.
All of us need to remind ourselves of the fact that Bush's 2001 Tax Cuts are working. The IRS reports new all-time record highs in tax revenue collected in each and every year since 2004. And they are fair, the upper 10 percent of all taxpayers are paying over 71% of income taxes collected -- up from 66% in 2000.
We must NOT let Bush's tax cuts expire in 2010!
Last edited by Epoch; Oct 23, 2008 at 02:48 PM.
ZOMG Pew Pew Laserbeams
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To add to Epoch's comments, you do realize that the top 10% of the taxpayers you are listing are significantly less people than the 50% of tax payers you are talking about. That top 10% of taxpayers actually control ~80% of this nation's wealth. In addition, who do you think keeps the rich, rich? Keeps their businesses afloat? Chances are it's the rest of the population, who spend their money on necessities which eventually make their way into these businesses profit margins. If the poor have nothing to spend or no earning power, the rich people won't be making any money. Anyways it has been proven that when the lower and the middle class do well, the upper class does well too.
Rich people can afford to sit on their earnings in their savings, poor/middle class people typically have to spend.
Rich people can afford to sit on their earnings in their savings, poor/middle class people typically have to spend.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2004
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You realize that your list of economists are biased "Obama" supporters.
Students of the great "Milton Friedman" would never support such a laughable plan (attempting to have the top 5% pay more than 50% of all income taxes collected).
Under President Clinton, the top federal income tax rate was 42.5%
Under Bush's Tax Cuts, it was lowered to 37.9%
Now Obama wishes to eliminate Bush's 2001 Tax Plan (including estate taxes) and raise it to an absurd 47.7%.
Students of the great "Milton Friedman" would never support such a laughable plan (attempting to have the top 5% pay more than 50% of all income taxes collected).
Under President Clinton, the top federal income tax rate was 42.5%
Under Bush's Tax Cuts, it was lowered to 37.9%
Now Obama wishes to eliminate Bush's 2001 Tax Plan (including estate taxes) and raise it to an absurd 47.7%.
CHRISTMASTIME IN IRAQ
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,413
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area
You realize that your list of economists are biased "Obama" supporters.
Students of the great "Milton Friedman" would never support such a laughable plan (attempting to have the top 5% pay more than 50% of all income taxes collected).
Under President Clinton, the top federal income tax rate was 42.5%
Under Bush's Tax Cuts, it was lowered to 37.9%
Now Obama wishes to eliminate Bush's 2001 Tax Plan (including estate taxes) and raise it to an absurd 47.7%.
Students of the great "Milton Friedman" would never support such a laughable plan (attempting to have the top 5% pay more than 50% of all income taxes collected).
Under President Clinton, the top federal income tax rate was 42.5%
Under Bush's Tax Cuts, it was lowered to 37.9%
Now Obama wishes to eliminate Bush's 2001 Tax Plan (including estate taxes) and raise it to an absurd 47.7%.
Then you called them Obama supporters, to which I say "duh". We have statistical data, provided by The Economist, that are members of the AEA are more likely to support Obama based on his economic platform.
Milton Friedman was an advocate of massive deregulation (we've seen how well that works) and was an opponent of public schooling. While he did have some interesting ideas was certainly brilliant, some of the things he was a proponent of would be dismal failures in practive.
And what's up with putting names in quotes. Are you being sarcastic? I don't get that...
...
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,216
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From: Ottawa
It's scientifically impossible to argue with a conservative mind.
http://current.com/items/89311720_th...udies_prove_it
might want to save your breath Epoch
http://current.com/items/89311720_th...udies_prove_it
A new study out of Yale University confirms what argumentative liberals have long-known: Offering reality-based rebuttals to conservative lies only makes conservatives cling to those lies even harder. In essence, schooling conservatives makes them more stupid. From the Washington Post article on the study, which came out yesterday:
CHRISTMASTIME IN IRAQ
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,413
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area
It's scientifically impossible to argue with a conservative mind.
http://current.com/items/89311720_th...udies_prove_it
might want to save your breath Epoch
http://current.com/items/89311720_th...udies_prove_it
might want to save your breath Epoch
v-card member alpha
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,010
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From: Assplosion, NE
It's scientifically impossible to argue with a conservative mind.
http://current.com/items/89311720_th...udies_prove_it
might want to save your breath Epoch
http://current.com/items/89311720_th...udies_prove_it
might want to save your breath Epoch
Even when it's incontrovertible, many on that side seem unable or unwilling to "be the bigger man" and admit they could be wrong, which is something I quite often do, even when I'm sure I'm right.
Admitting that someone else could have a point, or that your opinion/belief isn't necessarily infallible, doesn't have to be seen as a sign of weakness. It doesn't have to take away from the credibility of the person's stance on the issue.
Keeping in mind there are some who might consider me relatively conservative, at least on some topics.
Last edited by A-series; Oct 26, 2008 at 05:22 AM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
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Forget debating the fact that those households who have adjusted gross incomes over $100K are paying over 50% of all income taxes collected...
The fact that personal information kept in a government agency can be collected and used to ruin the reputation of a private citizen is even more disturbing.
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...e.html?sid=101
The fact that personal information kept in a government agency can be collected and used to ruin the reputation of a private citizen is even more disturbing.
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...e.html?sid=101
Government computers used to find information on Joe the Plumber
Investigators trying to determine whether access was illegal
Friday, October 24, 2008 8:57 PM
By Randy Ludlow
The Columbus Dispatch
"State and local officials are investigating if state and law-enforcement computer systems were illegally accessed when they were tapped for personal information about "Joe the Plumber."
Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher became part of the national political lexicon Oct. 15 when Republican presidential candidate John McCain mentioned him frequently during his final debate with Democrat Barack Obama.
The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.
Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.
Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed by accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers, the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department.
It has not been determined who checked on Wurzelbacher, or why. Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law enforcement and government business.
Paul Lindsay, Ohio spokesman for the McCain campaign, attempted to portray the inquiries as politically motivated. "It's outrageous to see how quickly Barack Obama's allies would abuse government power in an attempt to smear a private citizen who dared to ask a legitimate question," he said.
Isaac Baker, Obama's Ohio spokesman, denounced Lindsay's statement as charges of desperation from a campaign running out of time. "Invasions of privacy should not be tolerated. If these records were accessed inappropriately, it had nothing to do with our campaign and should be investigated fully," he said.
The attorney general's office is investigating if the access of Wuzelbacher's BMV information through the office's Ohio Law Enforcement Gateway computer system was unauthorized, said spokeswoman Jennifer Brindisi.
"We're trying to pinpoint where it came from," she said. The investigation could become "criminal in nature," she said. Brindisi would not identify the account that pulled the information on Oct. 16.
Records show it was a "test account" assigned to the information technology section of the attorney general's office, said Department of Public Safety spokesman Thomas Hunter.
Brindisi later said investigators have confirmed that Wurzelbacher's information was not accessed within the attorney general's office. She declined to provide details. The office's test accounts are shared with and used by other law enforcement-related agencies, she said.
On Oct. 17, BMV information on Wurzelbacher was obtained through an account used by the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency in Cleveland, records show.
Mary Denihan, spokeswoman for the county agency, said the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services contacted the agency today and requested an investigation of the access to Wurzelbacher's information. Cuyahoga County court records do not show any child-support cases involving Wurzelbacher.
The State Highway Patrol, which administers the Law Enforcement Automated Data System in Ohio, asked Toledo police to explain why it pulled BMV information on Wurzelbacher within 48 hours of the debate, Hunter said.
The LEADS system also can be used to check for warrants and criminal histories, but such checks would not be reflected on the records obtained by The Dispatch.
Sgt. Tim Campbell, a Toledo police spokesman, said he could not provide any information because the department only had learned of the State Highway Patrol inquiry today.
Investigators trying to determine whether access was illegal
Friday, October 24, 2008 8:57 PM
By Randy Ludlow
The Columbus Dispatch
"State and local officials are investigating if state and law-enforcement computer systems were illegally accessed when they were tapped for personal information about "Joe the Plumber."
Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher became part of the national political lexicon Oct. 15 when Republican presidential candidate John McCain mentioned him frequently during his final debate with Democrat Barack Obama.
The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.
Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.
Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed by accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers, the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department.
It has not been determined who checked on Wurzelbacher, or why. Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law enforcement and government business.
Paul Lindsay, Ohio spokesman for the McCain campaign, attempted to portray the inquiries as politically motivated. "It's outrageous to see how quickly Barack Obama's allies would abuse government power in an attempt to smear a private citizen who dared to ask a legitimate question," he said.
Isaac Baker, Obama's Ohio spokesman, denounced Lindsay's statement as charges of desperation from a campaign running out of time. "Invasions of privacy should not be tolerated. If these records were accessed inappropriately, it had nothing to do with our campaign and should be investigated fully," he said.
The attorney general's office is investigating if the access of Wuzelbacher's BMV information through the office's Ohio Law Enforcement Gateway computer system was unauthorized, said spokeswoman Jennifer Brindisi.
"We're trying to pinpoint where it came from," she said. The investigation could become "criminal in nature," she said. Brindisi would not identify the account that pulled the information on Oct. 16.
Records show it was a "test account" assigned to the information technology section of the attorney general's office, said Department of Public Safety spokesman Thomas Hunter.
Brindisi later said investigators have confirmed that Wurzelbacher's information was not accessed within the attorney general's office. She declined to provide details. The office's test accounts are shared with and used by other law enforcement-related agencies, she said.
On Oct. 17, BMV information on Wurzelbacher was obtained through an account used by the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency in Cleveland, records show.
Mary Denihan, spokeswoman for the county agency, said the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services contacted the agency today and requested an investigation of the access to Wurzelbacher's information. Cuyahoga County court records do not show any child-support cases involving Wurzelbacher.
The State Highway Patrol, which administers the Law Enforcement Automated Data System in Ohio, asked Toledo police to explain why it pulled BMV information on Wurzelbacher within 48 hours of the debate, Hunter said.
The LEADS system also can be used to check for warrants and criminal histories, but such checks would not be reflected on the records obtained by The Dispatch.
Sgt. Tim Campbell, a Toledo police spokesman, said he could not provide any information because the department only had learned of the State Highway Patrol inquiry today.
ZOMG Pew Pew Laserbeams
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Private information can be used to publicly ruin anyone at any given time. What age do you think we live in? The Stone Age? Given the correct motivation someone could at any time find out something about your life even if you didn't want them to. That's the problem with the internet, it provides the ability to make the world smaller in a sense that you can easily communicate and pass on information but that is also one of it's problems of being connected. Don't try to tie partisan information to this, no one thrust this guy into the spotlight, he went up and talked to Barack Obama.