Why do Atheists care about religion?
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 682
Likes: 0
A church puts a cross on the side of a building, someone gets offended and along comes the ACLU forcing them to tear it down. Apparently putting a sign on the side of a building constitutes imposing religion.
On the other hand, the ACLU will protect the right of muslims, or numerous other religions to openly display religious symbols. Hell, they'll protect me if I want to display something obscene and offensive. But apparently it's unnacceptable for the religion worship by the majority of the American population to display anything in public.
And if you want to talk about imposing a religion let me describe the kind of exposure buddhism gets in Asia. There are temples everywhere. The concentration of temples far surpasses anything like you've ever seen. Religious ceremonies are held in the streets in plain view of everyone, occassionally even obstructing traffic. On some holidays hundreds if not thousands of firecrackers are set off, sometimes early in the morning sometimes late at night, for religious observances. But I guess it's acceptable because it's a cool, exotic religion not bland and lame like christianity is.
Mind you, I have no problem with what they do. I enjoy it myself. I just want to point out the double-standards. The thing is that the people rabidly opposed to christianity want to undermine it. What a more effective way of doing this than embracing other religions and reducing the presence christianity has in american life.
Hell, there are those willing to defend the actions of islamic terrorists! There are guys out there demanding we convert to islam or die, but christians are the bad ones. Even worse, they try to equate christian fundamentalists to islamic terrorists.
On the other hand, the ACLU will protect the right of muslims, or numerous other religions to openly display religious symbols. Hell, they'll protect me if I want to display something obscene and offensive. But apparently it's unnacceptable for the religion worship by the majority of the American population to display anything in public.
And if you want to talk about imposing a religion let me describe the kind of exposure buddhism gets in Asia. There are temples everywhere. The concentration of temples far surpasses anything like you've ever seen. Religious ceremonies are held in the streets in plain view of everyone, occassionally even obstructing traffic. On some holidays hundreds if not thousands of firecrackers are set off, sometimes early in the morning sometimes late at night, for religious observances. But I guess it's acceptable because it's a cool, exotic religion not bland and lame like christianity is.
Mind you, I have no problem with what they do. I enjoy it myself. I just want to point out the double-standards. The thing is that the people rabidly opposed to christianity want to undermine it. What a more effective way of doing this than embracing other religions and reducing the presence christianity has in american life.
Hell, there are those willing to defend the actions of islamic terrorists! There are guys out there demanding we convert to islam or die, but christians are the bad ones. Even worse, they try to equate christian fundamentalists to islamic terrorists.
There is a huge difference between displaying a cross on a church and mounting religous symbols in government buildings with government money.
Asia? Are you joking me? This is North America, not Asia. Wrong continent my friend
People do not want to undermine Christianity. No one has claimed to do so. No one is calling Christianity evil or 'lame'. And certainly no one is defending Islamic terrorism.
...And yes, Christian fundamentalism is just as bad as Islamic fundamentalism...
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: USA
Wow. Not at all. The ACLU will fight for the right to put the cross on the church. The ACLU is not anti-religous. They will fight tooth and nail for anyone that feels they are being denied freedom of speech, especially if it has to do with religion. I think you misunderstand the ACLU and what they stand for. Being improperly handled by police? Government impeding on your rights? The ACLU would be your first choice to help you and they would do it without hesitation.
First of all, your claim regarding the ACLU is patent bullshit. As a matter in fact, I have a friend who's church was forced to remove it's cross as part of legal action by the ACLU. Why? Because the cross was visible from the highway. Ironically, less than a mile away there's a giant billboard advertising a porn shop.
If someone were to complain about the advertisement they'd be considered a prude and would be told to look away. But I guess not being able to deal with a cross is another story. I can enjoy a bit of porn as well as the next guy but no matter how you look at it, that's bullshit.
Asia? Are you joking me? This is North America, not Asia. Wrong continent my friend
People do not want to undermine Christianity. No one has claimed to do so. No one is calling Christianity evil or 'lame'. And certainly no one is defending Islamic terrorism.
...And yes, Christian fundamentalism is just as bad as Islamic fundamentalism...
People do not want to undermine Christianity. No one has claimed to do so. No one is calling Christianity evil or 'lame'. And certainly no one is defending Islamic terrorism.
...And yes, Christian fundamentalism is just as bad as Islamic fundamentalism...
But sure, if you insist, it's EXACTLY the same thing.
CBOTY 2010
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 34,786
Likes: 0
From: MI
all i haev to say about all this is that the ACLU is one of the most anti-everything organizations out there. you could argue all day long about who they protect and what they stand for because the truth is noone knows the answer to that, the aclu will defend and represent anyone for anything at anytime on a whim. one day they will fight for child molesters to be allowed to have a group and a website and be able to publish how they go about molesting children and then the next day defend a bunch of mothers upset that their children got sent to war. the easiest way to explain the aclu is to say they are anti-government anything. they want the govt to stand there and hand out money and have no say in anything that goes on.
if theres one organized political body that i hate more than the unions its by far the aclu.
if theres one organized political body that i hate more than the unions its by far the aclu.
CHRISTMASTIME IN IRAQ
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,413
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area
Is this some kind of joke? I suppose your implication is that only rural Chinese are uneducated enough to actually believe in Gods. Very nice. Indeed, there are variations of Taosim, but the vast majority of taoists in Asia do indeed believe in dieties. And the religion itself is defined by a higher power, be it an abstract entity or a physical being. And thats when they don't mix religions, most commonly combining buddhism with taoism.
Rural China indeed. Someone better remind all the Taoists who believe in deities living in major cities that they belong in rural China. I'll be sure my wife's parents get the memo.
Rural China indeed. Someone better remind all the Taoists who believe in deities living in major cities that they belong in rural China. I'll be sure my wife's parents get the memo.
Taoist worshipping of spirits is no different than some catholics venerating saints. If you go to the core of the matter, there is nothing in the central writings of the religion itself that these actions are based upon, but is a socially learned part of the religious experience. For me, based on my personal readings of the Tao Te Ching and various other early writings, there's no basis for the worship of spirits. If someone wishes to, fine for them, but I see no need to, and there's nothing in the Tao Te Ching perscribing such behavior.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 682
Likes: 0
You responded exactly the way I expected you would. You try to deflect my arguments because you can't counter me directly. I don't even know why I waste my time, but I will anyway.
First of all, your claim regarding the ACLU is patent bullshit. As a matter in fact, I have a friend who's church was forced to remove it's cross as part of legal action by the ACLU. Why? Because the cross was visible from the highway. Ironically, less than a mile away there's a giant billboard advertising a porn shop.
If someone were to complain about the advertisement they'd be considered a prude and would be told to look away. But I guess not being able to deal with a cross is another story. I can enjoy a bit of porn as well as the next guy but no matter how you look at it, that's bullshit.
So, let me get this straight... What you mean is that a bible thumper going to your house and insisting you pray for Jesus to save you is the same thing as a terrorist yanking your head back and slitting your throat because you're an infidel. A group of Christian convervatives demonstrating against something they oppose is the same as a group of terrorists chant "praise allah" while the victim tries to scream from pain instead gagging on his own blood. Let's not even get into the kinds of incidents like that one in Russia where muslim terrorists shot fleeing school children in the back.
But sure, if you insist, it's EXACTLY the same thing.
First of all, your claim regarding the ACLU is patent bullshit. As a matter in fact, I have a friend who's church was forced to remove it's cross as part of legal action by the ACLU. Why? Because the cross was visible from the highway. Ironically, less than a mile away there's a giant billboard advertising a porn shop.
If someone were to complain about the advertisement they'd be considered a prude and would be told to look away. But I guess not being able to deal with a cross is another story. I can enjoy a bit of porn as well as the next guy but no matter how you look at it, that's bullshit.
So, let me get this straight... What you mean is that a bible thumper going to your house and insisting you pray for Jesus to save you is the same thing as a terrorist yanking your head back and slitting your throat because you're an infidel. A group of Christian convervatives demonstrating against something they oppose is the same as a group of terrorists chant "praise allah" while the victim tries to scream from pain instead gagging on his own blood. Let's not even get into the kinds of incidents like that one in Russia where muslim terrorists shot fleeing school children in the back.
But sure, if you insist, it's EXACTLY the same thing.
I do not believe that about the church and the cross. There must be more to the story that you are leaving out. That is blatently unconstitutional, and the ACLU would not fight such a case. Please back this up with an article or something of the sort. I have never heard of such a thing happening in my life.
As for the Christian fundamentalists...they DO have a history of violence. The difference is that the Middle East is significantly more unstable. This allows for violence to spread like wildfire. In the US, however, any such violence would be put to a stop in a heartbeat and the criminals would be duly charged. I have no doubt that if they had the financial backing, the possibility to get away, and the organization, some Christians would be the first to grab their guns and start killing pro-choice advocates, gay rights advocates, gay people, etc.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 682
Likes: 0
all i haev to say about all this is that the ACLU is one of the most anti-everything organizations out there. you could argue all day long about who they protect and what they stand for because the truth is noone knows the answer to that, the aclu will defend and represent anyone for anything at anytime on a whim. one day they will fight for child molesters to be allowed to have a group and a website and be able to publish how they go about molesting children and then the next day defend a bunch of mothers upset that their children got sent to war. the easiest way to explain the aclu is to say they are anti-government anything. they want the govt to stand there and hand out money and have no say in anything that goes on.
if theres one organized political body that i hate more than the unions its by far the aclu.
if theres one organized political body that i hate more than the unions its by far the aclu.
pukimonster
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,967
Likes: 2
From: Milwaukee, WI