War on Christmas?
Originally Posted by benjamin
I think you make an excellent point.
Also, I realize I was an asshole to you in the past, so let me just apologize for that right here.
Also, I realize I was an asshole to you in the past, so let me just apologize for that right here.
RedGoober you hit on a good point. Many pay lip service to living a Christian life, but only do it in the confines of their church building. I don't always get it right but I try.
Originally Posted by benjamin
What is this case? Are you referring to a specific incident?
Originally Posted by qtiger
Yes.
I don't really see the problem. No one's free speech is being infringed upon.
I don't really see the problem. No one's free speech is being infringed upon.
http://users.rcn.com/tlclcms/chrtree.htm
From the eleventh century, religious plays called "mystery plays" became quite popular throughout Europe. These plays were performed outdoors and in churches. One of the most prevalent of these plays was the "Paradise play." The play depicted the story of the creation of Adam and Eve, their sin, and their banishment from Paradise. The play would end with the promise of the coming Savior and His Incarnation (cf. Gen. 3:15). The Paradise play was simple by today's standards. The only prop on stage was the "Paradise tree," a fir tree adorned with apples. From this tree, at the appropriate time in the play, Eve would take the fruit, eat it, and give it to Adam.
Because of abuses that crept into the mystery plays (i.e., immoral behavior), the Church forbade these plays during the fifteenth century. The people had grown so accustomed to the Paradise tree, however, that they began putting their own Paradise tree up in their homes on Dec. 24. They did so on Dec. 24 because this was the feast day of Adam and Eve. The Paradise tree, as it had in the Paradise plays, symbolized both a tree of sin and a tree of life. For this reason, the people would decorate these trees with apples (representing the fruit of sin) and homemade wafers (like communion wafers which represented the fruit of life). Later, candy and sweets were added.
Another custom was to be found in the homes of Christians on Dec. 24 since the late Middle Ages. A large candle called the "Christmas light," symbolizing Christ who is the light of the world, was lit on Christmas Eve. In western Germany, many smaller candles were set upon a wooden pyramid and lit. Besides the candles, other objects such as glass balls, tinsel, and the "star of Bethlehem" were placed on its top.18
Though we cannot be certain, it seems highly likely that the first Christmas trees that appeared in Germany in the early sixteenth century were descendants of both of these customs: the Paradise tree and the Christmas pyramids and lights. The Paradise tree became our Christmas tree. Decorations that had been placed on the pyramids were transferred to the Christmas tree.
For many Christians the Christmas tree still retains the symbolism of the Paradise tree. The tree reminds us of the tree in Eden by which Adam and Eve were overcome and which thrust them into sin. But more importantly, the tree reminds us of the tree by which our sin was overcome, namely the tree upon which Christ Jesus was crucified. Is it a stretch to refer to the cross as a tree? Hardly, for this is the language of the New Testament itself! For example, Paul writes in Galatians 3:13, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree" (quoting Deut. 21:23). And Peter writes, "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed." Therefore, the Christmas tree is a wonderful symbol and reminder of our salvation and forgiveness through Jesus Christ.
Because of abuses that crept into the mystery plays (i.e., immoral behavior), the Church forbade these plays during the fifteenth century. The people had grown so accustomed to the Paradise tree, however, that they began putting their own Paradise tree up in their homes on Dec. 24. They did so on Dec. 24 because this was the feast day of Adam and Eve. The Paradise tree, as it had in the Paradise plays, symbolized both a tree of sin and a tree of life. For this reason, the people would decorate these trees with apples (representing the fruit of sin) and homemade wafers (like communion wafers which represented the fruit of life). Later, candy and sweets were added.
Another custom was to be found in the homes of Christians on Dec. 24 since the late Middle Ages. A large candle called the "Christmas light," symbolizing Christ who is the light of the world, was lit on Christmas Eve. In western Germany, many smaller candles were set upon a wooden pyramid and lit. Besides the candles, other objects such as glass balls, tinsel, and the "star of Bethlehem" were placed on its top.18
Though we cannot be certain, it seems highly likely that the first Christmas trees that appeared in Germany in the early sixteenth century were descendants of both of these customs: the Paradise tree and the Christmas pyramids and lights. The Paradise tree became our Christmas tree. Decorations that had been placed on the pyramids were transferred to the Christmas tree.
For many Christians the Christmas tree still retains the symbolism of the Paradise tree. The tree reminds us of the tree in Eden by which Adam and Eve were overcome and which thrust them into sin. But more importantly, the tree reminds us of the tree by which our sin was overcome, namely the tree upon which Christ Jesus was crucified. Is it a stretch to refer to the cross as a tree? Hardly, for this is the language of the New Testament itself! For example, Paul writes in Galatians 3:13, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree" (quoting Deut. 21:23). And Peter writes, "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed." Therefore, the Christmas tree is a wonderful symbol and reminder of our salvation and forgiveness through Jesus Christ.
I'm not Christian, but even I have the ability to see that there is a war on Christianity by bored liberals. There's a new case almost every day where a liberal, excited by some radical left wing organization, files a lawsuit on anything having to do with Christianity. As someone said before -- the minority in this case is exerting their will on the majority. Most people do not care if they see "Low Christmas Prices" on some Walmart billboard. But a few idiots will see this and see an opportunity to get some satisfaction out of changing that word to "Holiday." Does the word Christmas really offend you atheists and agnostics out there? Does the word Christmas really offend you Jews, Muslims, and Hindus? I hate to bring up this radical organization, but, the ACLU (see a pattern here?) threatened to file a lawsuit because on the ceiling of one of the buildings in D.C. that houses Congress sessions had a Christian symbol on it! Then they filed a lawsuit on the state of California because a symbol for one of the counties of CA had a Christian symbol on it. The war on Christianity stems much deeper than Christmas. I say, don't file frivolous lawsuits on your city because they're having a "Christmas Parade." The city is not infringing on your freedom of religion. Celebrate Christmas the way you see fit. If you want to worship the eight-headed God of thunderstorms during Christmas, do it.
Whatever the origins of Christmas are, it is obvious to everyone that Christmas is a Christian holiday.
I am a Christian. This is our holiday. The way Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. If people don't like it, they don't have to celebrate our holiday. Christmas does not belong to non-believers.
It would make no more sense for me start celebrating Hannakah (sorry if that's spelled wrong) and put up a fuss about manora's. Why don't I celebrate Kwanza and strip all the heritage and culture from the holiday?
I am a Christian. This is our holiday. The way Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. If people don't like it, they don't have to celebrate our holiday. Christmas does not belong to non-believers.
It would make no more sense for me start celebrating Hannakah (sorry if that's spelled wrong) and put up a fuss about manora's. Why don't I celebrate Kwanza and strip all the heritage and culture from the holiday?
Originally Posted by Wow Civic
I'm not Christian, but even I have the ability to see that there is a war on Christianity by bored liberals. There's a new case almost every day where a liberal, excited by some radical left wing organization, files a lawsuit on anything having to do with Christianity.
Originally Posted by Wow Civic
As someone said before -- the minority in this case is exerting their will on the majority. Most people do not care if they see "Low Christmas Prices" on some Walmart billboard. But a few idiots will see this and see an opportunity to get some satisfaction out of changing that word to "Holiday." Does the word Christmas really offend you atheists and agnostics out there? Does the word Christmas really offend you Jews, Muslims, and Hindus? I hate to bring up this radical organization, but, the ACLU (see a pattern here?) threatened to file a lawsuit because on the ceiling of one of the buildings in D.C. that houses Congress sessions had a Christian symbol on it!
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congres..._United_States
Second, I don't have a clue what you're talking about. When you make a claim like this, you need to either post a link to a news story about it or actually provide details like names and dates. Otherwise the story sounds like complete bullshit, which is what I'm guessing it is.
Third, the federal government is limited in the way it can display religious symbols because the wall of separation between church and state isn't just a groovy idea -- it is federal law. If you post some details about this incident, I'll be happy to point out why it really isn't the big bad liberals come to strip you of your right to drink egg nog and eat candy canes.
Originally Posted by Wow Civic
Then they filed a lawsuit on the state of California because a symbol for one of the counties of CA had a Christian symbol on it.
Originally Posted by Wow Civic
The war on Christianity stems much deeper than Christmas. I say, don't file frivolous lawsuits on your city because they're having a "Christmas Parade." The city is not infringing on your freedom of religion. Celebrate Christmas the way you see fit. If you want to worship the eight-headed God of thunderstorms during Christmas, do it.
>>Cite examples or admit that you made this up.
GLADLY!
Odd/questionable ACLU moves/frivolous lawsuits:
ACLU Defends Woman who is guilty of doing cocaine while she is pregnant and having a baby boy who had high amounts of cocaine in his blood. (Not only will the baby be addicted but it is child endangerment)
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...ocal-headlines
ACLU compares Christians who pray to terrorists. Wow.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=45807
ACLU puts children in danger again. ACLU challenges FLA Sex Predator Laws that require Sex Offenders to stay away from children.
http://www.news-journalonline.com/Ne...AG01080205.htm
ACLU wants to jail teachers who pray/mention God.
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=15287
Frivolous lawsuit: ACLU Sues lawmaker for saying Jesus.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=44628
ACLU Sues Ohio to block them from selling "Choose Life" (tags)plates. The money from the sales would go to pregnant women who can't take care of their children/to put them up for adoption.
http://www.nbc4i.com/news/4422228/detail.html
ACLU wants Child Nudists camps to be legal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro...2512-6855r.htm
ACLU threatens wrestling coach with lawsuit because he prayed with his team.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=42477
ACLU Threatening Child Services because one of their concerts may contain "GOSPEL music"
http://www.10tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2186170
ACLU wants "F-word" not to be bleeped out on TV.
http://cbsnewyork.com/entertainment/...079161335.html
ACLU Wants sexual consent age to be 13...(13+ year olds have the right to have sex with adults...)
http://www.cjonline.com/stories/0916..._consent.shtml
ACLU makes child pornography easier.. trying to get rid of the Child Pornography Protection Act because it "is against expression of ideas" WHAT?
http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/...asp?story=1147
ACLU Double Standards:
Anti-Christianity
"Case in point, with former Arizona Governor Jane Hull. In 1998, then-Governor Hull issued a proclamation, declaring a "Bible Week" for her state. The ACLU immediately threatened to sue, claiming a violation of the so-called "separation of church and state." Rather than face a drawn-out legal battle, Hull backed down.
Two years later, the same Governor Hull issued another proclamation—this time commemorating the birth of Buddha. While many anticipated another threat of a lawsuit from the ACLU, none came. This time, an ACLU spokesperson said, "Although we may think proclamations are inappropriate, they may not violate the Constitution. "
http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/...asp?story=1149
for more odd Anti-Christianity double standards from who else but the ACLU...
Or would you like me to shove 100 more links down your throat? Oh I do love a copy-and-paste session to prove my point...
>>>Second, I don't have a clue what you're talking about. When you make >>a claim like this, you need to either post a link to a news story about it or actually provide details like names and dates. Otherwise the story sounds like complete bullshit, which is what I'm guessing it is.
I did not make this story up either. I heard of it on FOX News and found information not on the threatening lawsuit but on the information on what exactly is on the walls of the Supreme Court building: "The Supreme Court building in Washington, DC features a frieze of Moses carrying two numbered tablets signifying the Commandments alongside depictions of Hammurabi, Solon and other historical figures." The ACLU wanted the all symbols and anything that signified the "Ten Commandments" out of public buildings. This included the two numbered tablets that signified the Commandments in the SUPREME COURT building. (Not the Capitol; I heard this story on Fox when the entire case was popular and a lawyer from the ACLU was complaining something along the lines of"How can we get the Supreme Court do agree with us if they themselves have the Ten Commandments in their building?")
>>>Again, post a link, provide details, or admit that you made this up. I >>mean, seriously, this doesn't even make any sense. Why would the ACLU sue the state if the county is the offending party? Did you even think about this before you posted it?
http://republican.assembly.ca.gov/me...ials&RefID=946
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119035,00.html
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=13425
http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/...s.asp?id=29497
They sued LA County. Like it makes a monumental difference. Point remains. Bored Liberals = frivolous lawsuits. If you need any more "proof" or links to that story I'll send you about 2,000 webpages that my Google search turned up.
GLADLY!

Odd/questionable ACLU moves/frivolous lawsuits:
ACLU Defends Woman who is guilty of doing cocaine while she is pregnant and having a baby boy who had high amounts of cocaine in his blood. (Not only will the baby be addicted but it is child endangerment)
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...ocal-headlines
ACLU compares Christians who pray to terrorists. Wow.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=45807
ACLU puts children in danger again. ACLU challenges FLA Sex Predator Laws that require Sex Offenders to stay away from children.
http://www.news-journalonline.com/Ne...AG01080205.htm
ACLU wants to jail teachers who pray/mention God.
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=15287
Frivolous lawsuit: ACLU Sues lawmaker for saying Jesus.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=44628
ACLU Sues Ohio to block them from selling "Choose Life" (tags)plates. The money from the sales would go to pregnant women who can't take care of their children/to put them up for adoption.
http://www.nbc4i.com/news/4422228/detail.html
ACLU wants Child Nudists camps to be legal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro...2512-6855r.htm
ACLU threatens wrestling coach with lawsuit because he prayed with his team.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=42477
ACLU Threatening Child Services because one of their concerts may contain "GOSPEL music"
http://www.10tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2186170
ACLU wants "F-word" not to be bleeped out on TV.
http://cbsnewyork.com/entertainment/...079161335.html
ACLU Wants sexual consent age to be 13...(13+ year olds have the right to have sex with adults...)
http://www.cjonline.com/stories/0916..._consent.shtml
ACLU makes child pornography easier.. trying to get rid of the Child Pornography Protection Act because it "is against expression of ideas" WHAT?
http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/...asp?story=1147
ACLU Double Standards:
Anti-Christianity
"Case in point, with former Arizona Governor Jane Hull. In 1998, then-Governor Hull issued a proclamation, declaring a "Bible Week" for her state. The ACLU immediately threatened to sue, claiming a violation of the so-called "separation of church and state." Rather than face a drawn-out legal battle, Hull backed down.
Two years later, the same Governor Hull issued another proclamation—this time commemorating the birth of Buddha. While many anticipated another threat of a lawsuit from the ACLU, none came. This time, an ACLU spokesperson said, "Although we may think proclamations are inappropriate, they may not violate the Constitution. "
http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/...asp?story=1149
for more odd Anti-Christianity double standards from who else but the ACLU...
Or would you like me to shove 100 more links down your throat? Oh I do love a copy-and-paste session to prove my point...
>>>Second, I don't have a clue what you're talking about. When you make >>a claim like this, you need to either post a link to a news story about it or actually provide details like names and dates. Otherwise the story sounds like complete bullshit, which is what I'm guessing it is.
I did not make this story up either. I heard of it on FOX News and found information not on the threatening lawsuit but on the information on what exactly is on the walls of the Supreme Court building: "The Supreme Court building in Washington, DC features a frieze of Moses carrying two numbered tablets signifying the Commandments alongside depictions of Hammurabi, Solon and other historical figures." The ACLU wanted the all symbols and anything that signified the "Ten Commandments" out of public buildings. This included the two numbered tablets that signified the Commandments in the SUPREME COURT building. (Not the Capitol; I heard this story on Fox when the entire case was popular and a lawyer from the ACLU was complaining something along the lines of"How can we get the Supreme Court do agree with us if they themselves have the Ten Commandments in their building?")
>>>Again, post a link, provide details, or admit that you made this up. I >>mean, seriously, this doesn't even make any sense. Why would the ACLU sue the state if the county is the offending party? Did you even think about this before you posted it?
http://republican.assembly.ca.gov/me...ials&RefID=946
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119035,00.html
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=13425
http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/...s.asp?id=29497
They sued LA County. Like it makes a monumental difference. Point remains. Bored Liberals = frivolous lawsuits. If you need any more "proof" or links to that story I'll send you about 2,000 webpages that my Google search turned up.


