MPM77

While the debate over whether a V8 is needed in a RL is a hot topic, I feel that since I have a 2000 RL I should vent my frustrations. Does the RL need a V8? I don't know, but the current engine, in my opinion, is no where near powerful enough. Some of my complaints with the current set-up include: (1) Horsepower - to really compete in its class it needs to have at a minimum 280hp; (2) Torque- needs to be increased if Honda wants to stand behind its claim that it does not need a V8; (3) Fuel efficiency- This car is horrible on gas (avg 16-17mpg) combined with a small gas tank (18 gallons) range is less than sufficient.

If Honda truely wants to claim that it does not need a V8, than it must produce a V6 that is truely compatible to a V8.

yianni64

The 2002's did indeed bump up the power. 280hp minimun in this class? What class you think the RL is in? I think the MDX/Pilots's(yes i know they are slightly different) engine would be a better choice than the current non VTEC one. Dumb move for Acura, they could have marketed they were the first all variable valve timing company out there if it wasnt for the RL.

fastball

If the RL is to compete with the likes of the Lexus LS430, they have a LONG way to go. I actually think it would not be a bad move for Acura to drop the ultra-luxury line all together..... think about it -- the rest of their cars are driver oriented, aimed at people who actually ENJOY driving. Sport and performance is the rest of their line. Why do they need a floaty, stuffy, snobby car, when 90% of the people at any given Acura dealer on any given day are looking at CL, TL, or RSX? By far more driver oriented vehicles, even in base form (non S-Type). The LS430 is the best vehicle in that class, anyway, so why would anyone buy anything else? I rode in a LS400 once -- eat your heart out, MB! You'd think you were riding in a car costing twice as much!

98CoupeV6

The RL does not compete with the Lexus LS430. It competes with the G300/430, BMW 5 series, and MB E Class. They should keep it that way, because they have their own niche...a FWD luxury car. Making it RWD and V8 would lose that niche and we'd witness another Q45.

For the record, I far and away prefer the 7 series to the LS...the LS is way too cushy and isolated for my tastes.

fastball

What's the price for an RL? I was under the impression that it was around $47,000. For $55,000 you can get a LS430. Mabe I would go for the old 7-series over the Lexus, but that I-drive thing is way too wacky for me. The same day I drove the CL-S, I took a 325Ci for a spin, and the salesperson showed me the new 7 in the showroom. You need a PHD in computer science engineering to operate everything but the windows on that car!

Troopa-R

Part of that is the different ways that Honda and Toyota price their cars.

The Top of the Line Acura RL with Nav has an MSRP of $45K. However, TMV drops it down to $41K. The car comes fully loaded.

Toyota prices the LS430 like all other Toyotas, completely devoid of options. True, you *could* get an LS430 for $55K. Assuming you don't need (or could even get one without) A/C, a radio, or leather seats. A realistic price for an LS430 is closer to $63K. TMV drops that price down to around $60K.

fastball

Lexus LS430 base MSRP: $54,405, that will get you dual zone climate, leather, in-dash 6-disc changer, and everything you need.

Acura 3.5RL base MSRP: $43,150. Similar equipment.

98CoupeV6

Did you not read his post? And just to nit pick, it's Ph.D :fawk:

fastball

I read his post..... I got that he thought you could not get an LS430 for less than $60,000 which you CAN, and it will have a radio! And seats!

Troopa-R

Fine. I challenge you to find a base Lexus LS430 anywhere that has an MSRP for $55K.

Fact of the matter is, every LS430 is outfitted with one of several mandatory Luxury packages, from the Custom Luxury Package to the Navigation Package to the Navigation/Mark Levinson Package to the Ultra Luxury Package.

The point is, every Lexus has the dual-zone climate, moonroof, leather and I'm sure much more. But since they're all part of option packages, they're not standard. They're mandatory options.

In contrast, the Acura has two options, or actually three. Navigation system, OnStar, or Nav and OnStar.

Trying to claim the price difference between the Acura RL and Lexus LS isn't that much is easily outrageous. The base RL comes fully equipped, everything is standard (like all Hondas). The base LS comes completely barren, to the point where it's impossible to get a base vehicle.

EDIT: Okay, I went to the Lexus Website and tried to build the cheapest Lexus LS430 possible. I got the base Car, with Ecru Leather, the Heated Seats/Tilt Telescope Wheel Option (a $2K option, the cheapest possible. Had to choose one), and was forced to purchase Wheel Locks and Trunk Mats as mandatory accessories. My final price was $57048. So yes, you can get a LS430 for under $60K.

However, this is the most basic configuration for an LS430, and it's the only one available at a sub-$60K price point. The next highest package was the $7K Nav/Mark Levinson package, which would have pushed it above $60K alone. None of this includes Dealer installed options.

In contrast, all RL's come in at an MSRP of under $46K, not including dealer options.