Ochdx

When was the last time Honda did something that everyone asked for? Since the beginning of this century they been going downhill.

sherwood

honda has always lived a little behind the times. up until the pilot and mdx there was no actual honda SUV.

before the ridgeline there was no truck.

before 1995 there was no honda-badged V6 (this is the first time america would see am accord v6)

and so on.

honda has always played catch-up, i feel that by the next model lineup they will have caught up with and surpassed the current model trends. they have already started by picking up the civic SI and losing the RSX. they are streamlining their lineups and i feel everything is about to change.

autofreak

Amen.h:

Ochdx

I wouldnt say they always played catch up... Their I4's were ages ahead of times, then their high output V6 in TL/CL type S put them on par and ahead of their V8 competiors. Not to even mention the NSX and S2000.

And now they let themselves slide below Camry's level? wtf!?

Troopa-R

They "let themselves slide"? Honda's got a 3 year old product going up against brand new competition. If the next gen Accord didn't beat the Camry, that's one thing. But I don't think you can let yourself fail when you're 3 years early.

Ochdx

Well, Hondas were always competive even with their old products against newer gen competition, but now... Nissan, Toyota, even Hundai and domestics are on par or ahead. But thats not even the problem, it was obvious that eventually other companies are going to catch up on technology and start making efficient engines, but the problem is that Honda hasn't made any progress. The new TL is barely anymore powerful than the previous gen TL-S, which was introduced in 1999 if my memory serves me right.

sherwood

the reasons behind this were most likely because of a few things.

if they wer to use a DOHC v6 it would have basically surpassed the power of an nsx, which wouldn't have looked good at the time, especially when you are introducing it as a sport-luxury

you also have to remember that unlike many of it's competitors it's still running FWD. how in the hell they got 270 into a FWD car with minimal torque steer is a miracle, imagine trying to deal with over 300.

also the old S-series (TL-S/CL-S) wasnt released until 2002, alongside the rsx type-s, and neither came with a 6-speed until 2003. the big additon with the last overhaul was to add a 6 speed to the sedan.

also if you look at baseline numbers the base TL used to have 225 horse, so this generation was actually a 20% increase over the last generation. and the generation before that was 200 horse, which got increased to 225, which is an increase less than 20%, it's more like 12.5%

so with each generation of the car it seems that output is increasing exponentially.

if you follow this understanding i can see them hitting 325 with the next generation. even witht he new SAE standards (which seem to destroy honda's numbers. i have some feeling that they test the cars after they have been warmed up extensively. honda's tend to drop output signifigantly after their manifolds get hot)

autofreak

On the contrary, as far as the Accord goes, the I4 (160-166) increased hp by 6 and the V6 increased by 4 (240-244). The 2006 Toyota Camry's numbers decreased: I4 (160-154) and the XLE and LE V6 (210-190). The SE hp numbers remained the same.

MtViewGuy88

If I remember correctly, if Honda had used the older SAE net rating the I-4 engine would have gotten around 170 bhp and the V-6 engine around 250 bhp.

sherwood

who the fawk said anything about the accord?

and off topic the last major accord overhaul netted an increase of 25 horse for the base I4, and an extra 10 over the previous vtec models.

the AV6 gained 40 horse and also both the new "refreshed" engines for 06 use the new SAE certification standards-- which as already explained crippled hondas numbers. it's probably also the reason for the refresh (so that the old humbers don't look so bland when downgraded by honda's CHOICE to gt all their cars tested under the new SAE cert.)

now back to the TL....