Is this reliable?
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 823
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From: nj
Originally posted by DeadLock23
if you want a really reliable turbo setup, try to think of it this way.
you have an NA car, that was designed to be NA, forced induction causes a lot of strain, so you might want to build up your internals a bit. A lot of people will tell you that if you want to run 7-9 lbs of boost stock internals are fine, but no one really knows, some last some don't.
Make sure you save money and do it right from the start. fuel management and timing is EVERYTHING when it comes to forced indcution. You should really invest in a standalone fuel system such as hondata or AEM EMS, they are pricy but give you total control, and after everything is installed you need to tune it, it will cost you a lot more in the end but it will be reliable and at its most optimum.
good luck
if you want a really reliable turbo setup, try to think of it this way.
you have an NA car, that was designed to be NA, forced induction causes a lot of strain, so you might want to build up your internals a bit. A lot of people will tell you that if you want to run 7-9 lbs of boost stock internals are fine, but no one really knows, some last some don't.
Make sure you save money and do it right from the start. fuel management and timing is EVERYTHING when it comes to forced indcution. You should really invest in a standalone fuel system such as hondata or AEM EMS, they are pricy but give you total control, and after everything is installed you need to tune it, it will cost you a lot more in the end but it will be reliable and at its most optimum.
good luck
Wannabe yuppie
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 25,918
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From: Madison, WI
Basically an FMU sucks because it tries to force more fuel through the stock fuel injectors. It raises the fuel pressure in response to boost level.
Fuel injectors are rated by how many cc of fuel they can flow in a minute. The stock injectors are rated for 240 cc/min. The way the ECU controls the injectors is by sending a signal called "duty cycle." Thsi is represented in a percentage. The higher the duty cycle, the longer the injector stays open.
If you increase the fuel pressure without changing the duty cycle, all you do is is try to force a little more fuel through the same sized injector that stays open for the same amount of time. It doesn't do much.
What you want to do, is get the duty cycle changed correctly. The stock injectors really can't flow enough, so you should step up to either 450 cc/min ones out of a turbo DSM or 440 cc/min RC Engineering pieces.
You will then need a means of tuning the duty cycle. ZDyne sells a fully programmable ECU similar to the AEM EMS or Hondata for the non-OBD cars (which yours is). This is the best option.
For a more reasonable price you can use an APEX'i S-AFC. Basically the way it works is it takes the signal that goes from the MAP sensor to the ECU and changes it. You don't change the stored settings in the ECU but you trick it into thinking there is more or less air going into the motor than there actually is. Normally when the ECU sees a signal that indicates boost it goes into a limp mode. If you set the S-AFC to -40% fuel trim across the board, it changes the signal to not actually look like boost. The ECU sees this signal and responds with a lower duty cycle than necessary. But the trick is that since you have higher flow injectors than stock, they effectively "multiply" the duty cycle back up to what is necessary.
It would also be a good idea to upgrade your fuel pump.
Fuel injectors are rated by how many cc of fuel they can flow in a minute. The stock injectors are rated for 240 cc/min. The way the ECU controls the injectors is by sending a signal called "duty cycle." Thsi is represented in a percentage. The higher the duty cycle, the longer the injector stays open.
If you increase the fuel pressure without changing the duty cycle, all you do is is try to force a little more fuel through the same sized injector that stays open for the same amount of time. It doesn't do much.
What you want to do, is get the duty cycle changed correctly. The stock injectors really can't flow enough, so you should step up to either 450 cc/min ones out of a turbo DSM or 440 cc/min RC Engineering pieces.
You will then need a means of tuning the duty cycle. ZDyne sells a fully programmable ECU similar to the AEM EMS or Hondata for the non-OBD cars (which yours is). This is the best option.
For a more reasonable price you can use an APEX'i S-AFC. Basically the way it works is it takes the signal that goes from the MAP sensor to the ECU and changes it. You don't change the stored settings in the ECU but you trick it into thinking there is more or less air going into the motor than there actually is. Normally when the ECU sees a signal that indicates boost it goes into a limp mode. If you set the S-AFC to -40% fuel trim across the board, it changes the signal to not actually look like boost. The ECU sees this signal and responds with a lower duty cycle than necessary. But the trick is that since you have higher flow injectors than stock, they effectively "multiply" the duty cycle back up to what is necessary.
It would also be a good idea to upgrade your fuel pump.
DeeCeeFo'
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,755
Likes: 0
From: Scranton PA
Can somebody explain the relativeness of having to tune in your timing and the likes on the engine with FI cars. I've been reading up on turbo's trying to gain more and more knowledge, but haven't touched this topic yet. Everybody states that tuning is EVERYTHING when it comes to FI :dunno: Thanks in advance.
Wannabe yuppie
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 25,918
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From: Madison, WI
Ignition timing is another trick to deal with in the ECU.
The distributor has a capability to be advanced electronically by the ECU. The ECU has a timing advance map in it just like the fuel map. There's a base timing setting which you control mechanically. With a programmable ECU you can modify the map. Without one all you can do is retard the distributor a bit through mechanical means which has the effect of not changing the shape of the timing map but pulls say, 4 degrees of timing out of the whole thing.
The distributor has a capability to be advanced electronically by the ECU. The ECU has a timing advance map in it just like the fuel map. There's a base timing setting which you control mechanically. With a programmable ECU you can modify the map. Without one all you can do is retard the distributor a bit through mechanical means which has the effect of not changing the shape of the timing map but pulls say, 4 degrees of timing out of the whole thing.
Wannabe yuppie
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 25,918
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From: Madison, WI
Holley (a.k.a. Walbro) makes nice fuel pumps. For injectors you're either looking at some used DSM 450 cc/min ones from various sources, or you can get some RC's which run about 90 bucks a pop. Off the top of my head I'm not real familiar with how much the DSM's go for.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 159
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From: nashville
Alright, well i think im jus gonna get some 440 cc/min injectors, and i was wondering if im jus gonna be running like between 7-9 boost, is a fuel pump like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6764 gonna be overkill, or would it be about right?
Civic GSR Driver
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 256
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From: Frederick, MD
I know this thread is pretty much dead but i just have a quick question that kinda corrilates to it so if someone could ansewer it would be most appreciated 
If you use a Walebro 255lph Fuel Pump at like 6psi (on a turbo kit similar to a drag one) and that is the only thing delivering extra fuel. Do you think it would run lean?
If you use a Walebro 255lph Fuel Pump at like 6psi (on a turbo kit similar to a drag one) and that is the only thing delivering extra fuel. Do you think it would run lean?