Playing with just the fuel pressure is a pretty crappy way to tune something. You're basically trying to squeeze more fuel through the injectors than the ECU is telling them to dispense. It's imprecise and for bolt-on mods, the ECU will easily detect the difference and still deliver the right mixture. Your standard intake, header and exhaust combo is not going to cause the ECU to run lean. It has sensors to tell it there's more air entering the engine.

Now, if you drastically change the airflow characteristics of the motor (i.e. cams or other internal mods; or forced induction) then you've gotten yourself outside of the ECU's range of adjustability. Is the solution now to just increase the fuel pressure? No, for a couple reasons. One, the stock Honda pump flows less at higher pressure. Two, you haven't increased the capacity of the fuel injectors. To get more fuel into the motor the injector has to stay open for a longer amount of time. This amount of time is called "duty cycle" and the only way to change it is with some sort of electronic fuel controller like an A'PEXi V-AFC or Fields SFC VTEC. These controllers modify the signal the ECU sends to the injectors to change the duty cycle and thus change the amount of fuel going into the motor. This is a perfect solution for a car that's still normally aspirated, and works pretty decent with a forced induction car.

The problem with forced induction is that while the stock Honda MAP sensor is able to send a signal out that indicates there is positive manifold pressure (a.k.a. boost), the ECU is unable to interpret this signal. This would require more complexity and since a normally aspirated motor only operates within a certain range of manifold pressure, that is the range the ECU is able to work with. In more simple terms, boost makes the ECU throw a check-engine light, and to solve this problem you have to not allow the ECU to see boost. So if the ECU can't see the boost, then the add-on controller can't really tune based on boost. For a boosted car the best solution is to either have the ECU modified to read boost (Hondata does this) or replace the ECU with one that is able to read boost (AEM EMS). These are both fully programmable solutions that are capable of seeing the boost signal from the MAP sensor and know what to do in response to that signal.

Sorry for the essay, but specificity can be used to solve an argument over generalities. Damn I'm such an English Major.

 

damn i'm in everytime you do that in a post

:thumbup:

 

Wow, thanks for that explaination. Let me just tell you my plans for next year, and since I am putting the Teg away for winter i'll be saving some dough for it.

First I got to go with the aesthetics (lipstick and rouge) is what I like to call it.

1:Body kit, Wings West RS type 2.
2:Paint, a kick ass green I saw in a mag.
3:Got a IHI Turbo sitting in my basement, so I need an intercooler and BOV. My brother in law will be making me a turbo exhaust manifold, (he's done it before).

Now for my questions. What else in terms of making the turbo work am I gonna need? I found this site that pretty much tells you how to install a turbo into an Integra.

Check it http://www.cse.uconn.edu/~yelevich/turbo/turbo.html

I was also wondering if I will need somekind of digital boost controller, or should I just keep it a manual (in the engine, with a boost gauge) type of deal?

 

Okay, while that site has the right idea on how to build a kit, completely ignore item #1 on how a turbo system works (the wastegate section), because it is inaccurate.

A wastegate does not slow down the air going to the turbo, it vents it to the atmosphere or into your exhaust system, beyond the turbo.

Wrong again. "Too much" boost = too much pressure + too much heat + poor fuel management (FMU ) = detonation = goodbye motor!


Okay, back on to your questions: An electronic boost controller is a very nice thing to have, because it will allow you to limit the amount of boost your engine gets at any particular time.

For example, you are driving to the grocery store. You do not need 8 pounds of boost to take a left on Main Street, so for day-to-day use, you have your controller set to give you no more than 5 pounds. Enough for a little bit of pep, but nothing that would slaughter your gas mileage or your engine. But on track day (or when you come across a playful C5 Corvette on the way to the store), you can hit your happy little scramble button, which you have set to bump you up to 10 pounds of boost for 60 seconds. Enough to get you to the end of the drag strip/Solo I/II course, or give that C5 something to think about.

With a manual boost controller, you're much more likely to set the boost higher as a just in case measure, or when you go out for some fun, and then you're stuck with that setting until you have time to pop your hood and adjust it. Some boost controllers also have a couple extra goodies like an integrated boost gauge, etc, that can make them handy in other ways.

Now, FMUs: Like Mike said,
And I agree totally. Check out his post above to learn why, I don't feel like rewording.

That is all a FMU does. For every 1 psi of boost you run, the FMU will give you an additional 8 or 12 psi of fuel pressure. That's a nasty way to do things. On a basic level, each pound of boost you run does not need the same amount. Obviously, the higher the pressure, the hotter your exhaust gases are, the faster the turbo is spinning, which means your intake temperatures are climbing fast. Colder intake temps = more air, so obviously 1 psi of charge @ 100 degrees needs more fuel than 1 psi of charge @ 200 degrees. But the FMU doesn't care, you get 8 or 12 psi for each pound of boost. The ECU will try to compensate (it knows your intake temps via your IAT sensor), but it isn't expecting the fuel pressures that the FMU is dishing out. Plus, your stock IAT sensor really isn't responsive enough for a turbo environment (A NA car's intake temp doesn't change 100 degrees in 8 seconds), but that's another conversation.

What I would advise you to do is do the turbo kit first, then the body kit. This will ensure that you don't go cheap with the turbo setup, which is begging for trouble.

On the fuel management side of things, I would recommend either:

• Apexi V-AFC paired up with a AVC-R (boost controller). They can hook together and allow the V-AFC to do some fuel modification based on pressure. Relatively easy to understand and tune, but without the bonuses of the other two options, and is piggyback, which limits your tuning options.
• Hondata. Great system, accounts for boost, extra goodies. Will still need an external boost controller. I'd advise you to get a pro to help you tune this, preferably on a dyno. Standalone system.
• AEM EMS. All that and a bag of chips, but a price tag to match. Not an easy system for an amateur to tune, think twice before doing this on your own. Standalone system.

Also, I'd consider getting a new fuel pump & injectors if you are going to be running even moderate amounts of boost. There isn't a whole lot to play with in the stock fuel system, and a turbo car needs more fuel per horsepower than an NA car. If you are going to get one or the other, pick up the pump first.


Okay, that's your homework, read chapters one through three for tomorrow. It will be on the quiz. If you need me to explain piggyback vs. standalone fuel management, just ask.

 

Oh lord, a bodykit (which admittedly by itself probably ain't so bad) and a "kick ass green you saw in a mag." Not to be condescending, but come on man!

Here's what I'd do.

1. Good wheels and nice sticky tires.
2. Upgraded shocks and springs.
3. Aggressive street brake pads (I'm going out on a limb here and guessing the only track this car will ever see is a drag strip) like Hawk HPS, Axxis Ultimate or EBC GreenStuff.
4. Turbo goodies. And with the money you didn't spend on making the car look faster than it really is, you can get a better fuel solution like a Hondata or AEM EMS mated to a nice hi-flow fuel pump and higher-rate fuel injectors.

 

Hey Booty, I still got those Altezzas you wanted for your ride..

Shoot me a PM

 

Booty: Already got some 17" with 205/45/17 Yokohama parada'a spec 2.

And also I have a Vortech FMU that I bought, will that work anywhere here in the scheme of things?

And I've been holding out all year for the body kit and paint, so that will be first. I am planning on getting me some Eibach or sport line race springs, for the lowest and firmest ride.

I will be looking into getting one of those Apexi V-AFC boost controllers. And do you guys think my turbo is ok, is it too small...I could try and sell it and get a ever popular t3/t4 Garrett.

 

Also is it a Apexi S-AFC Fuel Controller or V-AFC Fuel/VTEC Controller. Cause i'm guessing v-afc if for a v-tec engine, I have a B18B.

 

S-AFC = piggyback fuel controller
V-AFC = S-AFC with VTEC control
AVC-R = electronic boost controller

Get some good shocks to go with your springs. KYB AGX, Tokico Illumina or Koni Sport (a.k.a. Yellow) are all good. Stick with a mid-level lowering spring like Eibach Sportline, H&R Sport, etc..."race" springs eat up too much suspension travel for street use.

Skip the Vortech FMU. To do things right you'll want a better fuel pump and higher-flow fuel injectors, and some electronic means of correcting the mixture (either an S-AFC, Hondata or AEM EMS). The S-AFC works alright but I'd go with a Hondata for a '92-95 car or an AEM EMS for a '96 up car. The Hondata also needs a boost controller to go with it, manual or electronic is up to you.

 

If you're tight on money here is a new afc product for cheap. http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=279803
We're still waiting on people's responses once its installed. But from the looks of things it looks like a great alternative to the fmu. Its basically a cheap afc hack. The only downside is there are only 4 variable points but people that run dsm injectors usually have the settings very close throughout the powerband. You can't fine tune as much as the e-manage or s-afc but it does the job and is much more reliable than an fmu.