What Type Of Coilovers are Everybody Using
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Originally Posted by descartesfool
After speaking with both Greg at Teinusa and Jay Morris at Ground Control, I decided that the person who knows the most about shocks should get my money, so I ordered a set of Jay's Advance Design aluminum coil-overs, $399 ea. plus $55 ea. for springs....
Another feature which helped me choose the Advance Design over the Tein's is the fact that I get the springs I want and valving to match for the original price. In my case, Jay recommended 450 lb springs front and 550 lb springs rear, and by adding a pair of 650 lb springs for an extra $110, I can run 550 front and 650 rear.
Another feature which helped me choose the Advance Design over the Tein's is the fact that I get the springs I want and valving to match for the original price. In my case, Jay recommended 450 lb springs front and 550 lb springs rear, and by adding a pair of 650 lb springs for an extra $110, I can run 550 front and 650 rear.
I hope you won't be insulted if I run out and copy you.
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As descartesfool said, I run the Ohlins coilovers, and wouldn't trade them for the world, they perform well on and off the track. That being said, I recently bought a new set of Eibach srpings for them. I had originally been using the set of springs that they had came with, and was very happy with the way they drove on the street, but was disapointed with them on the track...Any ways, need less to say, I sent them out, thinking they needed to be rebuilt, as I did buy them used, and it seemed they weren't performing as I had expected. I sent them of to Rob at AMF motorsports, who, if you want to talk about knowing a lot about racing suspension, I think he told me more than I ever really wanted to know.
Any way, after having the struts dynoed, I was happy to find out, that it wasn't the struts at all, in fact it was the springs, that over time had lost spring rate, and were now un-even. I talked to him for a good deal of time regarding different possible setups that I could run. After a long discussion about sway bars and rear springs, I ended up buying a set of 700lb rear springs, and a set of 550lb front springs for the street. I was actually considering a Mugen 26mm rear sway bar, mainly due to the fact that out of all the race teams that I've seen run, all run either that, or someting custom made that was a bit larger, for example, real time runs an 1.5 inch hollow sway bar, that they actually had to cut parts of the tire well to run. Any way, to make a long story short, he explained that the rear sway bar was basically a large elongated srping that hepled the rear springs maintain proper allignment as well as allow the car to use both rear springs while the car would tend to load up to one side. In otherwords, it tries to distribute some of the shock to the other side as well. Thus keeping the car a little more level, hence why it's called a sway bar. Any ways, he made a good point, he asked me where I drove the car most, the street or the track, in this case obviously, I said the street, and he suggested rather than running very high spring rates and a very thick sway bar all the time, that I should just have two sets of springs, one for the track and one for the street, he said this would accomplish two things, first, give me a drivable car for the street. In addition, when I was at the track and using the stiffer spring rates, if it started to rain, I could switch back to the spring rates that I was using for the street, this way the car didn't rotate as much on turn in, therefor giving me better control in the rain, especially since once it starts raining, I go from Toyo RA1 that are shaved to falken Azenis, which for all intensive purposes are street tires. He said that continuing to run a very stiff suspension setup in the rain would actually take away from my times, as I would have to slow down enough to avoid spinning out. I guess sometimes a little give in suspension can be a good thing. In defense of the Tiens with a higher spring rate in the front, they make a great setup for the rain, becuase you want as much distributed weight toward the front as you can, so this way,it tends to be more point and shoot in the rain, rather than having to worry about the back coming out on you too much.
On the same hand, he also explained that if you corner weight your car at an event, more than likely you can accomplish shifting the weight in your car no matter what spring rates that you use. It just so happens, with the group of guys I go out with, we all pitched in for a set of longacre scales. I acutally looked into getting an SPA dyno, but then found out how much they cost....hahahaahah.....starting at $9995, I thought there was an extra number there so I called, well, we never got the dyno....ahhahahha.
One thing after all this that I figured out on my own. I drive a street car 98% of the time, and although I would love my car to perform as well on the track as it does the street. I can't push my car that hard on the street. When I was a tad younger I saw off ramps as opportunities, and sharp turns as lots of fun. now after spending a couple years on the track, and at least one full set of rims and control arms on the street. All I see on the street any more when I see turns are curbs and trees....Not to say that I dont still drive hard on the street, but not quite the maniac I used to be. Any way, as I was saying, moral of the story, make your street car a street car, and understand that the setup that you run will not work for the track, and vice versa, unless you are willing to make some very serious sacrifices on either comfort or handling...
On a side note, Rob over at AMF motorsports, does all the work for the team that I used to travel with, he does excellent work and realy knows his stuff. If anyone ever needs anything rebuilt or modified, they stock replacement parts for everything from Ohlins to Fox, and use all SPA dynos and goodies.
Point of this really long story, though everyone wants their street car to be a track car, and vice versa, you really are better off keeping your options open, and especially with how easy it is to change springs, you should seriously consider having another set...
Just my opinion....
Later,
Aj
Any way, after having the struts dynoed, I was happy to find out, that it wasn't the struts at all, in fact it was the springs, that over time had lost spring rate, and were now un-even. I talked to him for a good deal of time regarding different possible setups that I could run. After a long discussion about sway bars and rear springs, I ended up buying a set of 700lb rear springs, and a set of 550lb front springs for the street. I was actually considering a Mugen 26mm rear sway bar, mainly due to the fact that out of all the race teams that I've seen run, all run either that, or someting custom made that was a bit larger, for example, real time runs an 1.5 inch hollow sway bar, that they actually had to cut parts of the tire well to run. Any way, to make a long story short, he explained that the rear sway bar was basically a large elongated srping that hepled the rear springs maintain proper allignment as well as allow the car to use both rear springs while the car would tend to load up to one side. In otherwords, it tries to distribute some of the shock to the other side as well. Thus keeping the car a little more level, hence why it's called a sway bar. Any ways, he made a good point, he asked me where I drove the car most, the street or the track, in this case obviously, I said the street, and he suggested rather than running very high spring rates and a very thick sway bar all the time, that I should just have two sets of springs, one for the track and one for the street, he said this would accomplish two things, first, give me a drivable car for the street. In addition, when I was at the track and using the stiffer spring rates, if it started to rain, I could switch back to the spring rates that I was using for the street, this way the car didn't rotate as much on turn in, therefor giving me better control in the rain, especially since once it starts raining, I go from Toyo RA1 that are shaved to falken Azenis, which for all intensive purposes are street tires. He said that continuing to run a very stiff suspension setup in the rain would actually take away from my times, as I would have to slow down enough to avoid spinning out. I guess sometimes a little give in suspension can be a good thing. In defense of the Tiens with a higher spring rate in the front, they make a great setup for the rain, becuase you want as much distributed weight toward the front as you can, so this way,it tends to be more point and shoot in the rain, rather than having to worry about the back coming out on you too much.
On the same hand, he also explained that if you corner weight your car at an event, more than likely you can accomplish shifting the weight in your car no matter what spring rates that you use. It just so happens, with the group of guys I go out with, we all pitched in for a set of longacre scales. I acutally looked into getting an SPA dyno, but then found out how much they cost....hahahaahah.....starting at $9995, I thought there was an extra number there so I called, well, we never got the dyno....ahhahahha.
One thing after all this that I figured out on my own. I drive a street car 98% of the time, and although I would love my car to perform as well on the track as it does the street. I can't push my car that hard on the street. When I was a tad younger I saw off ramps as opportunities, and sharp turns as lots of fun. now after spending a couple years on the track, and at least one full set of rims and control arms on the street. All I see on the street any more when I see turns are curbs and trees....Not to say that I dont still drive hard on the street, but not quite the maniac I used to be. Any way, as I was saying, moral of the story, make your street car a street car, and understand that the setup that you run will not work for the track, and vice versa, unless you are willing to make some very serious sacrifices on either comfort or handling...
On a side note, Rob over at AMF motorsports, does all the work for the team that I used to travel with, he does excellent work and realy knows his stuff. If anyone ever needs anything rebuilt or modified, they stock replacement parts for everything from Ohlins to Fox, and use all SPA dynos and goodies.
Point of this really long story, though everyone wants their street car to be a track car, and vice versa, you really are better off keeping your options open, and especially with how easy it is to change springs, you should seriously consider having another set...
Just my opinion....
Later,
Aj
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42
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George Knighton wrote:
[quote:36ad2f2ab6]Thanks for doing all the research.
I hope you won't be insulted if I run out and copy you.[/quote:36ad2f2ab6]
George, please feel free to copy, and let's hope I came to the right conclusion (its not like Tein RS coilovers wouldn't be great also). You will however find Jay is much easier to talk to after you have said you are buying the coil-overs. He also mentioned a really trick adjustable rear sway bar they are having custom made, which attaches to the shock bodies I believe, and cheaper than Mugen rear bar, so I ordered one.
Now with regards to those NSX's, that is what I used to run for the last 6 years, but I have decided to let it live a more elegant life as a boulevard cruiser for now. And last year I was at Lime Rock with my NSX for a lapping event, and some guy in a white Type R in the advanced run group passed every NSX (and a few were highly modified) and just about every thing else in the group except two very trick 911's. When I asked him his secret, he said he just didn't really brake in the turn before the main straight. More throttle and less brake! Oh yes and over a thousand laps at Lime Rock he figured. So I decided to give the ITR a go and to have fun tweeking it a little.
[quote:36ad2f2ab6]Thanks for doing all the research.
I hope you won't be insulted if I run out and copy you.[/quote:36ad2f2ab6]
George, please feel free to copy, and let's hope I came to the right conclusion (its not like Tein RS coilovers wouldn't be great also). You will however find Jay is much easier to talk to after you have said you are buying the coil-overs. He also mentioned a really trick adjustable rear sway bar they are having custom made, which attaches to the shock bodies I believe, and cheaper than Mugen rear bar, so I ordered one.
Now with regards to those NSX's, that is what I used to run for the last 6 years, but I have decided to let it live a more elegant life as a boulevard cruiser for now. And last year I was at Lime Rock with my NSX for a lapping event, and some guy in a white Type R in the advanced run group passed every NSX (and a few were highly modified) and just about every thing else in the group except two very trick 911's. When I asked him his secret, he said he just didn't really brake in the turn before the main straight. More throttle and less brake! Oh yes and over a thousand laps at Lime Rock he figured. So I decided to give the ITR a go and to have fun tweeking it a little.
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There's going to be an open track day at sebring-full course on may 10th, you should come if you have your scca license or certification. I don't know who's running the track, but i got invited from these guys testing for le mans in lamborginis. If your cars done let me know.
-Jon
-Jon
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Originally Posted by descartesfool
He also mentioned a really trick adjustable rear sway bar they are having custom made, which attaches to the shock bodies I believe, and cheaper than Mugen rear bar, so I ordered one.
Originally Posted by BlackForestMotorsports
There's going to be an open track day at sebring-full course on may 10th, you should come if you have your scca license or certification. I don't know who's running the track, but i got invited from these guys testing for le mans in lamborginis. If your cars done let me know.
-Jon
-Jon
Later,
Aj
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42
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Aj,
the rear ITR bar from Jay is $249 (used to be $229 but price had to go up). Reason for mount to shock body is Jay thought existing mount to pressed steel arm was a bit flimsy if one increased the roll rate. I don't know if it only fits the Advance Design coil-overs, but they are currently out of stock and having 70 made. The shop making them apparently welds a lot of parts for Bombardier and so Jay has to wait his turn, and thus so do I. Jay says bar is adjustable and a fabulous piece. In this case I just took him at his word, eased by the fact that I as about to buy a Mugen 26 mm rear bar for $370. I will just have to wait and see.
the rear ITR bar from Jay is $249 (used to be $229 but price had to go up). Reason for mount to shock body is Jay thought existing mount to pressed steel arm was a bit flimsy if one increased the roll rate. I don't know if it only fits the Advance Design coil-overs, but they are currently out of stock and having 70 made. The shop making them apparently welds a lot of parts for Bombardier and so Jay has to wait his turn, and thus so do I. Jay says bar is adjustable and a fabulous piece. In this case I just took him at his word, eased by the fact that I as about to buy a Mugen 26 mm rear bar for $370. I will just have to wait and see.
