weight, torque, labor, etc... (noOB question)
Ive done a lot of research in the last few days...
B20z longblock, including manifolds(not that you'll want to use them), TB, distributor is $749 from hmotorsonline.com
A GS-R intake manifold wont work, but an LS one will (could get that extrude honed in denver)
any B-series exhaust manifold will work
LS ecu is plug and play
The B20z is MUCH preferable over the B20B because it actually has somewhat of a top end (20 more hp than the B), and is improved slightly throughout the powerband by the 9.6:1 cr. It doesn't look like the intake manifold (with big resonator chamber) will fit under the hood of a civic, but I'd try it out. If not, an LS manifold is a direct replacement and cheap as hell. Plus, the stock b20 exh. manifold is a cheap stamped steel POS, so that'd have to go
So the rundown:
B20Z longblock $750
LS ecu $120ish used
LS intake mani $40ish used
Si/gs-R exhaust mani $100ish used
gs-R/Si tranny, axles, shift linkage $800ish used
so figure in shipping, and thats about $2100-$2200
use aftermarket header instead of used exh. mani, thats a couple hundred more, get your LS intake manifold extrude honed, an extra $75.
It seems as though for about $2500, you could be making 138hp and 132lb-ft to the wheels. Sounds like a deal to me.
B20z longblock, including manifolds(not that you'll want to use them), TB, distributor is $749 from hmotorsonline.com
A GS-R intake manifold wont work, but an LS one will (could get that extrude honed in denver)
any B-series exhaust manifold will work
LS ecu is plug and play
The B20z is MUCH preferable over the B20B because it actually has somewhat of a top end (20 more hp than the B), and is improved slightly throughout the powerband by the 9.6:1 cr. It doesn't look like the intake manifold (with big resonator chamber) will fit under the hood of a civic, but I'd try it out. If not, an LS manifold is a direct replacement and cheap as hell. Plus, the stock b20 exh. manifold is a cheap stamped steel POS, so that'd have to go
So the rundown:
B20Z longblock $750
LS ecu $120ish used
LS intake mani $40ish used
Si/gs-R exhaust mani $100ish used
gs-R/Si tranny, axles, shift linkage $800ish used
so figure in shipping, and thats about $2100-$2200
use aftermarket header instead of used exh. mani, thats a couple hundred more, get your LS intake manifold extrude honed, an extra $75.
It seems as though for about $2500, you could be making 138hp and 132lb-ft to the wheels. Sounds like a deal to me.
That all sounds good. A few problems you might run into. The distributor that comes with a USDM B20 is going to be an OBD II unit (no CRV's were made before '96) along with the injectors, unless you get a JDM engine (not sure what it will have). You may have to re-pin the distrubtor and change the harnesses for the injectors (or use OBD I B-series stuff). I'm not positive any of that will be nessicary, but it's something to keep an eye on. I know my OBD II Civic distrubtor uses a completely different plug than my OBD I Civic and Integra motor and the OBD II injectors use a round plug while the OBD I's use a square (same wires, same function, just different plugs).
The GS-R intake manifold will not work, that will only bolt to a GS-R head. Really not worthwhile anyway, plug you'd have to wire up a rpm switch for the secondaries. You might even consider going with a 2nd gen B16A intake manifold as opposed to the LS. It's a little bigger higher flowing unit, that might help top end out a little. You can usually find them the parts trader.
You'll be hard pressed to find a tranny, axle's and shift linkage for $800 so I'd probably budget a little more for that (you might get lucky though). I'd definately get a VTEC tranny though, shorter gearing will help acceleration but hurt gas milage and highway rpms will be higher. The B20 most likely won't come with a flywheel or clutch (most B20s' were automatics) and I'd definately consider getting a lightweight flywheel and gripper clutch. I have a Clutchmasters stage 3 clutch and alumium flywheel and I like them both but they cost around $850. If you can find the money, a LSD is definately worth considering for autoX. Also budget some money for a new timing belt, water pump, hoses and the like (little stuff can add up quick) and also an intake and exhaust system as well. Seeya.
The GS-R intake manifold will not work, that will only bolt to a GS-R head. Really not worthwhile anyway, plug you'd have to wire up a rpm switch for the secondaries. You might even consider going with a 2nd gen B16A intake manifold as opposed to the LS. It's a little bigger higher flowing unit, that might help top end out a little. You can usually find them the parts trader.
You'll be hard pressed to find a tranny, axle's and shift linkage for $800 so I'd probably budget a little more for that (you might get lucky though). I'd definately get a VTEC tranny though, shorter gearing will help acceleration but hurt gas milage and highway rpms will be higher. The B20 most likely won't come with a flywheel or clutch (most B20s' were automatics) and I'd definately consider getting a lightweight flywheel and gripper clutch. I have a Clutchmasters stage 3 clutch and alumium flywheel and I like them both but they cost around $850. If you can find the money, a LSD is definately worth considering for autoX. Also budget some money for a new timing belt, water pump, hoses and the like (little stuff can add up quick) and also an intake and exhaust system as well. Seeya.
__________________
Andy - Reinstated Hybrid Forum Moderator
'06 Subaru Legacy Spec B - Stock, for now
'98 Civic EX - CTR headlights and grill, Kosei K1's, for sale
'90 240SX - SR20DET that will never get installed, project car.
Andy - Reinstated Hybrid Forum Moderator
'06 Subaru Legacy Spec B - Stock, for now
'98 Civic EX - CTR headlights and grill, Kosei K1's, for sale
'90 240SX - SR20DET that will never get installed, project car.
the B20Z is a JDM only engine. It comes from the Honda S-MX, so I don't know what that means for wiring and whatnot. It probably makes it a little more likely to have had a manual transmission, though.
Like I said earlier, the gs-r intake manifold wont work. I'm pretty sure the B16 one wont either. The head on the B20 is identical to the B18B head, bolt wise. I figured the B16a and B18b intake manifolds weren't interchangeable... correct me if I'm wrong.
Good point on the flywheel, though. I should try and get a decent aftermarket one. As for a clutch, I'll see. I wont be doing many hard launches (only 3 or 4 medium launces per weekend durring the summer
) So a stock b-series clutch would probably do the trick-- aftermarket clutches are freakin expensive.
The LSD will probably have to wait, unless I can find a ITR tranny for cheap... not likely.
Like I said earlier, the gs-r intake manifold wont work. I'm pretty sure the B16 one wont either. The head on the B20 is identical to the B18B head, bolt wise. I figured the B16a and B18b intake manifolds weren't interchangeable... correct me if I'm wrong.
Good point on the flywheel, though. I should try and get a decent aftermarket one. As for a clutch, I'll see. I wont be doing many hard launches (only 3 or 4 medium launces per weekend durring the summer
) So a stock b-series clutch would probably do the trick-- aftermarket clutches are freakin expensive.The LSD will probably have to wait, unless I can find a ITR tranny for cheap... not likely.
Ha ha, you are wrong! The B18C1 intake manifold/head is the bastard step child of the B-series intake manifolds/heads (there are a lot of bastard step childs in Honda motors). The LS/B16A and B18C5 all use the same intake manifold flanges. You could bolt a Type R manifold to your LS head, but the LS cams really wouldn't pull the air to make it useful. The B16A unit would probably be a good compromise.
The B20's are also USDM engines. The early (I apologize but I don't know the years off hand) CRV"s had the lower compression (B20B I believe) engine while the newer (probably '98 or '99+) have the higher compression B20 (B20Z?). I believe all JDM B20's are stamped as B20B's (?) but have the higher compression (I believe). It's been a while since I though/researched it so some of it's fuzzy. I believe all B20's came in some sort of awd/awd-designed car so the stock tranny is useless. If you get really lucky, it might just have a flywheel though. Probably best in the end to go with a lightweight flywheel anyway. You should consider a replacement clutch. It's expensive, but worth doing now. No point in tearing the tranny out 6 months later. Oh yeah, once you get your hybrid running, you won't just be driving it on the weekends. Seeya.
The B20's are also USDM engines. The early (I apologize but I don't know the years off hand) CRV"s had the lower compression (B20B I believe) engine while the newer (probably '98 or '99+) have the higher compression B20 (B20Z?). I believe all JDM B20's are stamped as B20B's (?) but have the higher compression (I believe). It's been a while since I though/researched it so some of it's fuzzy. I believe all B20's came in some sort of awd/awd-designed car so the stock tranny is useless. If you get really lucky, it might just have a flywheel though. Probably best in the end to go with a lightweight flywheel anyway. You should consider a replacement clutch. It's expensive, but worth doing now. No point in tearing the tranny out 6 months later. Oh yeah, once you get your hybrid running, you won't just be driving it on the weekends. Seeya.
__________________
Andy - Reinstated Hybrid Forum Moderator
'06 Subaru Legacy Spec B - Stock, for now
'98 Civic EX - CTR headlights and grill, Kosei K1's, for sale
'90 240SX - SR20DET that will never get installed, project car.
Andy - Reinstated Hybrid Forum Moderator
'06 Subaru Legacy Spec B - Stock, for now
'98 Civic EX - CTR headlights and grill, Kosei K1's, for sale
'90 240SX - SR20DET that will never get installed, project car.
check out vancouvercivics.com/honda_engines.php, orwww.sportcompactcarweb/tech/swapguide1.pdf. There are a number of other sites that say the B20Z is the 9.6:1 cr engine and that it came from the JDM honda s-MX. I don't really want the USDM CR-V engine, as thats the one (if all these sites and lists are correct, anyway) that has the crappy 8.8cr.
Thats cool about the intake manifolds though, that will make the parts search much easier, thanks for clarifying.
What I was saying is that it would be nice if I found a longblock with the flywheel and clutch... I would like to get a lightened flywheel, but I would re-use the clutch if it were still in good shape. I really don't drive much during the week, and when I do, I drive very conservatively around town (can't afford any more tickets) or up I-70 to go snowboarding, so really, and honestly the only time I would give the clutch a workout would be when I race on the weekends, and I don't even launch that hard when I autocross. If the clutch were bad, however, I might consider one of those organic street discs--mainly because theyre designed to last a long time (which appeals to a broke bastard like me)
Thats cool about the intake manifolds though, that will make the parts search much easier, thanks for clarifying.
What I was saying is that it would be nice if I found a longblock with the flywheel and clutch... I would like to get a lightened flywheel, but I would re-use the clutch if it were still in good shape. I really don't drive much during the week, and when I do, I drive very conservatively around town (can't afford any more tickets) or up I-70 to go snowboarding, so really, and honestly the only time I would give the clutch a workout would be when I race on the weekends, and I don't even launch that hard when I autocross. If the clutch were bad, however, I might consider one of those organic street discs--mainly because theyre designed to last a long time (which appeals to a broke bastard like me)
Don't give up on the USDM CRV engines yet. The '99+ CRV's have the 9.6 compression engines as well. If you get lucky, you might even find a local wrecked CRV that you can grab the engine out of. Be a lot easier not having to pay shipping on such a big part, and if you leave the tranny, manifold and misc bits you don't need, you might even get it cheap (some wrecking yards might not know what it's worth). Just an idea though.
If you can find a B20 with flywheel and clutch, great. I wouldn't pass up good engines if they don't though and I would seriously consider upgrading to new parts anyway. Costs a little bit more but you get what you pay for. You cut corners on little things, and it can come back and bite you. Seeya.
If you can find a B20 with flywheel and clutch, great. I wouldn't pass up good engines if they don't though and I would seriously consider upgrading to new parts anyway. Costs a little bit more but you get what you pay for. You cut corners on little things, and it can come back and bite you. Seeya.
__________________
Andy - Reinstated Hybrid Forum Moderator
'06 Subaru Legacy Spec B - Stock, for now
'98 Civic EX - CTR headlights and grill, Kosei K1's, for sale
'90 240SX - SR20DET that will never get installed, project car.
Andy - Reinstated Hybrid Forum Moderator
'06 Subaru Legacy Spec B - Stock, for now
'98 Civic EX - CTR headlights and grill, Kosei K1's, for sale
'90 240SX - SR20DET that will never get installed, project car.


