Turbo kit questions and tuning
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
From: Allentown PA, - Phila, PA
Turbo kit questions and tuning
Hey guys,
I recently got a turbo kit from Turbo Specialties Inc., and we bolted it up on saturday. I'm an Engineering student in my Senior year and my bro is a certified mechanic, so we know pretty much what we're doing, just have a couple of questions for those who have traveled the turbo road before. I also got a FMIC from a starion/conquest. It runs perfectly, although I haven't run it hard at all. Here are the specs;
B16a bottom end w/ GSR head, so Comp Ratio is higher, like 10.7,
ITR throttle body, chipped ECU (not for turbo), as for the kit;
T25 turbo, supposedly set at 6-7psi, but my boost gauge says it goes up to 8
full downpipe, BOV, exhaust, etc. it has a Fuel Pressure Riser for fuel delivery, I think it's 12:1. Basically the kit works fine, I just don;t wanna blow my motor up. We turned the timing back like 7-8 degrees, and it drives nicely on and off boost, and I've felt no detonation. I haven't driven it hard at all yet cause it's all BRAND NEW. Here's my questions: I'm going to put in an A/F gauge today, but I think I want my boost to be lower at like 5-6 max, cause my comp ratio is so high already. It has an Internal wastegate, and it's adjustable. How do I know which way to adjust so it LOWERS my boost pressure? I've heard to lengthen the rod, and each trun is about .4-.6 psi. Also, how do I know what is safe timing to run?? I'd rather have it reliable and less power than more power and detonation. Lemme know ASAP.
Thanks,
Mike B
I recently got a turbo kit from Turbo Specialties Inc., and we bolted it up on saturday. I'm an Engineering student in my Senior year and my bro is a certified mechanic, so we know pretty much what we're doing, just have a couple of questions for those who have traveled the turbo road before. I also got a FMIC from a starion/conquest. It runs perfectly, although I haven't run it hard at all. Here are the specs;
B16a bottom end w/ GSR head, so Comp Ratio is higher, like 10.7,
ITR throttle body, chipped ECU (not for turbo), as for the kit;
T25 turbo, supposedly set at 6-7psi, but my boost gauge says it goes up to 8
full downpipe, BOV, exhaust, etc. it has a Fuel Pressure Riser for fuel delivery, I think it's 12:1. Basically the kit works fine, I just don;t wanna blow my motor up. We turned the timing back like 7-8 degrees, and it drives nicely on and off boost, and I've felt no detonation. I haven't driven it hard at all yet cause it's all BRAND NEW. Here's my questions: I'm going to put in an A/F gauge today, but I think I want my boost to be lower at like 5-6 max, cause my comp ratio is so high already. It has an Internal wastegate, and it's adjustable. How do I know which way to adjust so it LOWERS my boost pressure? I've heard to lengthen the rod, and each trun is about .4-.6 psi. Also, how do I know what is safe timing to run?? I'd rather have it reliable and less power than more power and detonation. Lemme know ASAP.
Thanks,
Mike B
college kid
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,000
Likes: 0
From: New York
fuel pressure riser? sounds like your talking about FMU. fuel management unit that runs off a ratio (ie 12:1).
basically thats the WORST type of fuel management you can use. it'd really be worth it to get dyno tuned with uberdata, or if you have a ton of money, hondata.
a narrow band a/f gauge wont be able to tell you much.
im not sure about adjusting the internal. my internal is the non-adjustable. sorry i can't help there
basically thats the WORST type of fuel management you can use. it'd really be worth it to get dyno tuned with uberdata, or if you have a ton of money, hondata.
a narrow band a/f gauge wont be able to tell you much.
im not sure about adjusting the internal. my internal is the non-adjustable. sorry i can't help there
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
You'll have to test it to be sure, but making the rod longer (easier to open) will reduce the boost pressure.
Don't waste your money on the air/fuel ratio gauge as it's worthless unless it's a true wideband.
If it is a true wideband that your buying i'd say wait on that and put that money into the tuning first.
10.7:1 compression and fmu do NOT mix very well, esp 12:1 ratio and 8psi...
Do yourself a favor and invest in another form of tuning if you want the motor to last.
If you went with hondata (may seem expensive compared to a fmu but it's well worth it trust me) and larger 450cc+ injectors you can make upwards of 300+whp with no problems. Running 10-12psi will be no problem. Sounds like you have a nice motor, don't blow it.
Don't waste your money on the air/fuel ratio gauge as it's worthless unless it's a true wideband.
If it is a true wideband that your buying i'd say wait on that and put that money into the tuning first.
10.7:1 compression and fmu do NOT mix very well, esp 12:1 ratio and 8psi...
Do yourself a favor and invest in another form of tuning if you want the motor to last.
If you went with hondata (may seem expensive compared to a fmu but it's well worth it trust me) and larger 450cc+ injectors you can make upwards of 300+whp with no problems. Running 10-12psi will be no problem. Sounds like you have a nice motor, don't blow it.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by lkailburn
fuel pressure riser? sounds like your talking about FMU. fuel management unit that runs off a ratio (ie 12:1).
basically thats the WORST type of fuel management you can use. it'd really be worth it to get dyno tuned with uberdata, or if you have a ton of money, hondata.
a narrow band a/f gauge wont be able to tell you much.
im not sure about adjusting the internal. my internal is the non-adjustable. sorry i can't help there
basically thats the WORST type of fuel management you can use. it'd really be worth it to get dyno tuned with uberdata, or if you have a ton of money, hondata.
a narrow band a/f gauge wont be able to tell you much.
im not sure about adjusting the internal. my internal is the non-adjustable. sorry i can't help there
as for the FMU you can make a lot of power with a FMU. I made around 300whp for 2 1/2 years on a FMU, 450cc injectors, afc, 255lph pump, and missing link.
ok this is what I think you should do. Get a inline pro head gasket. it will drop compression to 9.7:1. then get rid of that turbo because you are probably over spinning it because of your rev range. they only tend to hold boost to about 6000rpm which doesn't help you much. get hondata and 660 or bigger injectors and tune it for 10psi or so on pump and 15psi or so on C16. don't go over 300whp with stock internals.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
From: Allentown PA, - Phila, PA
Hey guys,
Thanks for all the info in such a short time. I totally understand what you guys are telling me, but I don't really want a 300whp car...Put it this way, the car was fast as hell on the highway w/out the turbo, I just wanted some extra torque in the lower rev ranges. For my setup, I know that a 10.7:1 ratio is bad for turbo, but a Vortech kit for an S2000 (comp ratio of 11:1) uses an FMU, at 7-8psi, which is what I have, and it works fine. I'm not looking for massive amounts of power, I just wanted a SMALL turbo kit, which is what i have bought. I could always upgrade my fuel system in the future and upgrade to bigger turbo's etc., but I just want a reliable daily driver. Here are my Immediate plans:
Buy a Walbro 255lph fuel pump (in case its running too lean)
decrease boost pressure to 6psi MAX
Now, my question is, with my setup, (I don't really want to change FMU), is this safe to drive?
My bro has a Galant VR4 all hooked up, and he's gonna give me an extra A/F gauge, so it won't cost me anything.
Also, I'm not totally strapped for cash so I could spend another 300-400 on parts, but if it will work fine with what I have, then I'm gonna save it.
Thanks again,
Mike B
Thanks for all the info in such a short time. I totally understand what you guys are telling me, but I don't really want a 300whp car...Put it this way, the car was fast as hell on the highway w/out the turbo, I just wanted some extra torque in the lower rev ranges. For my setup, I know that a 10.7:1 ratio is bad for turbo, but a Vortech kit for an S2000 (comp ratio of 11:1) uses an FMU, at 7-8psi, which is what I have, and it works fine. I'm not looking for massive amounts of power, I just wanted a SMALL turbo kit, which is what i have bought. I could always upgrade my fuel system in the future and upgrade to bigger turbo's etc., but I just want a reliable daily driver. Here are my Immediate plans:
Buy a Walbro 255lph fuel pump (in case its running too lean)
decrease boost pressure to 6psi MAX
Now, my question is, with my setup, (I don't really want to change FMU), is this safe to drive?
My bro has a Galant VR4 all hooked up, and he's gonna give me an extra A/F gauge, so it won't cost me anything.
Also, I'm not totally strapped for cash so I could spend another 300-400 on parts, but if it will work fine with what I have, then I'm gonna save it.
Thanks again,
Mike B
college kid
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,000
Likes: 0
From: New York
pretty much every kit out there uses a peice of shit management like the fmu. don't go by whats in kits.
ya uberdata may not be as vibrant as hondate but it comes very close for a fraction of the cost. i can't even count the number of guys i know running uberdata. street, dyno, or even self tuned. not a single one has had any sort of problem what so ever.if your a rich kid sure go for hondata. but for something very comparable and much less, uberdata is a good solution.
and don't use a head gasket to lower compression like that. thats worse than skimping on your fuel management damn. first you bash uberdata and say go for hondata. then you say the fmu is good?!? and drop compression with a head gasket? dang dude lol
don't bash the HMT'er hehe
ya uberdata may not be as vibrant as hondate but it comes very close for a fraction of the cost. i can't even count the number of guys i know running uberdata. street, dyno, or even self tuned. not a single one has had any sort of problem what so ever.if your a rich kid sure go for hondata. but for something very comparable and much less, uberdata is a good solution.
and don't use a head gasket to lower compression like that. thats worse than skimping on your fuel management damn. first you bash uberdata and say go for hondata. then you say the fmu is good?!? and drop compression with a head gasket? dang dude lol
don't bash the HMT'er hehe
On permanent hiatus
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,716
Likes: 0
From: A forum with actual tech
Originally Posted by lkailburn
pretty much every kit out there uses a peice of shit management like the fmu. don't go by whats in kits.
ya uberdata may not be as vibrant as hondate but it comes very close for a fraction of the cost. i can't even count the number of guys i know running uberdata. street, dyno, or even self tuned. not a single one has had any sort of problem what so ever.if your a rich kid sure go for hondata. but for something very comparable and much less, uberdata is a good solution.
and don't use a head gasket to lower compression like that. thats worse than skimping on your fuel management damn. first you bash uberdata and say go for hondata. then you say the fmu is good?!? and drop compression with a head gasket? dang dude lol
don't bash the HMT'er hehe
ya uberdata may not be as vibrant as hondate but it comes very close for a fraction of the cost. i can't even count the number of guys i know running uberdata. street, dyno, or even self tuned. not a single one has had any sort of problem what so ever.if your a rich kid sure go for hondata. but for something very comparable and much less, uberdata is a good solution.
and don't use a head gasket to lower compression like that. thats worse than skimping on your fuel management damn. first you bash uberdata and say go for hondata. then you say the fmu is good?!? and drop compression with a head gasket? dang dude lol
don't bash the HMT'er hehe
I am running uberdata right now and yeah, it isn't as good as Hondata but the program is free and the chip is $15. It actually can tune in real time, it is called the Ostrich and it allows a new burn to be placed on the chip without removing it or shutting off the car. Uberdata will produce more power, safely, than an FMU any day of the week AND it is tunable.
As far as the headgasket to lower compression, it is a terrible idea. Lowering compression this way will eliminate quench zones, allow more surface area for detonation to impinge upon and blow it out, and provide little to no effect from the lowered compression. If you are going to lower compression, do it the right way and throw some dished pistons in. Otherwise, tune around it.
And yes, you need a larger turbo than that little weedwacker turbo.
hatchbacks r my anti-drug
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
if your wiling to spend another 300-400, pick up some...
450cc fuel injectors off any 1g DSM - $50.
Walbro 190 - $80
Uberdata kit from moates.net- $15
and spend the rest on someone to chip your ecu (unless you can do it yourself, theres plenty of write-ups and is actually very easy), dyno time and some local uberdata tuner to tune it.
450cc fuel injectors off any 1g DSM - $50.
Walbro 190 - $80
Uberdata kit from moates.net- $15
and spend the rest on someone to chip your ecu (unless you can do it yourself, theres plenty of write-ups and is actually very easy), dyno time and some local uberdata tuner to tune it.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
From: Allentown PA, - Phila, PA
questions...
Hey guys,
I don't understand why you guys dislike the FMU so much...If I were to buy a Revhard or DRAG turbo kit, which EVERYONE says is sooo good, it comes with one also, so does Vortech and Jackson Racing. I know that it will increase the fuel pressure linearly with increasing boost pressure, and it's not adjustable, but I don't have all the time in the world to tune my car with Uberdata, and I don't wanna spend tons of money to run 10psi. If the kits come with an FMU and are GUARANTEED to work at up to 7psi, then why are they despised so much?? I'm going to get a fuel pump ASAP, until then I've turned down boost to 5psi-6 absolute max (the wastegate was/is adjustable, thanks guys), i'm running 93-94 octane also. My ECU is chipped, done by me 5 years ago (A.S. degree in electronics pays off) and I don't feel like soldering new chips in and spending tons of money on Uberdata. Oh yeah, I'm not getting thicker head gasket, as my bro told me first it's a bad idea, and it's been verified by u guys. Also, when I used GTECH it said 186hp, which makes sense b/c I had all the NA parts u could get, and my car was really fast anyway, I could beat my bros talon w/16G on highway, its like 2400lbs with driver. That's why I got SMALL turbo for very fast spool and good street power, I DON'T WANT A HUGE TURBO FOR NOW, so enough of the trash talking on turbo, LOL. Again thanks for all your help.
Mike B
I don't understand why you guys dislike the FMU so much...If I were to buy a Revhard or DRAG turbo kit, which EVERYONE says is sooo good, it comes with one also, so does Vortech and Jackson Racing. I know that it will increase the fuel pressure linearly with increasing boost pressure, and it's not adjustable, but I don't have all the time in the world to tune my car with Uberdata, and I don't wanna spend tons of money to run 10psi. If the kits come with an FMU and are GUARANTEED to work at up to 7psi, then why are they despised so much?? I'm going to get a fuel pump ASAP, until then I've turned down boost to 5psi-6 absolute max (the wastegate was/is adjustable, thanks guys), i'm running 93-94 octane also. My ECU is chipped, done by me 5 years ago (A.S. degree in electronics pays off) and I don't feel like soldering new chips in and spending tons of money on Uberdata. Oh yeah, I'm not getting thicker head gasket, as my bro told me first it's a bad idea, and it's been verified by u guys. Also, when I used GTECH it said 186hp, which makes sense b/c I had all the NA parts u could get, and my car was really fast anyway, I could beat my bros talon w/16G on highway, its like 2400lbs with driver. That's why I got SMALL turbo for very fast spool and good street power, I DON'T WANT A HUGE TURBO FOR NOW, so enough of the trash talking on turbo, LOL. Again thanks for all your help.
Mike B
