im faced with a dilema wether to swap motors or go turbo on the current motor. its a '96 sohc 1.6 non-vtec in a '89 4-door running the original ODB-0 ECU and intake manifold.

as i am to understand this fuel injection system is pretty primitive and i cant flash the chip or swap it out to run a turbo fuel map. can i just increase the fuel pressure with a boost dependant AFPR and just tune it with a a/f guage until i get it right, maybe put bigger injectors inplace of these? i can retard the ignition timing on the distributor right? i dont want to run insane boost, 6-8 psi max. just something that pulls better than b18s.

this seems like a more viable option than $3000 worth of integra parts grafted onto this front clip. what u guys think?

 

I take it you mean a civic.

If that's the case, you can use a Zdyne Gold ECU for your tuning needs if you go boosted. Speed Phreak here on the board is running one on his car, and it works fairly well.

 

do i need fancy management? i seen some on the net with just bigger injectors and a FMU.

i dont need a stand-alone... just for like 150-175 HP.

 

Anyone that runs any longer than 6 months with this kind of management on a turbo honda is a hack. Bigger injectors and a FMU is a band-aid on a gaping wound. These kinds of setups almost always run super-rich, hurting power and economy. If you want a reliable setup, you can limit boost and have a conservative tune with a Zdyne ECU, which is still a hell of a lot cheaper than Hondata, or most of the chipped ECU options, while still retaining reliability and easy driving.

 

First off, the Honda ECU(even "primative" OBD-0) are over-engineered and very robust for their era. Don't mistake the older ECU technology from being crap. Myself, and a growing number of others chip Honda ECU's to run boost on a daily basis. Granted our grassroots movement doesn't have the shine and bling of something like Hondata, AEM, Zdyne or the like...But it's free to those who want to learn and are capable. Now as for the Rising rate regulator and bigger injector junk....[soap box]Thats just a poor mans way to 1/2 ass supply fuel for boost. It does work but it's a retarded way of adding extra fuel, thats been around since the very early days of F/I. It shouldn't be applied to today's EFI setups....AT ALL.[/soap box] Jacking the distr
ibutor back to retard timing also isn't a very reliable way to account for timing under boost. 6-8 psi of poorly tuned boost can do the same amount of damage as 20psi. Adding more air, your gotta add the right amount of fuel, and compensate the timing properly or you're just asking the engine to grenade on you. An OBD-0 ECU can be chipped with a conservative prog to run boost and ulitize larger injectors....for just about any engine you want for normally under $100. I'm not saying i'll do it, but i'm just saying it can be done.


Swap frist, turbo later if not satisfied. Turboing the SOHC, unless you got with a junk yard turbo setup and some grassroots DIY ECU tuning you're prolly looking at 2000~3000 to get it done right. You'll still only be marginally faster than most B18 swaps with the hassle of owning a turbo Honda, and all the little problems that entails. If this is your daily driver, I would HIGHLY recommend an LS/GSR swap over turbo, just from a sheer reliability stand point.

My $.02

 

yeah but its the green in the end im concerned about... its 89 sedan im never gonna make it into a showcar... i just wanted to know if it'll run with just more fuel dumped in. it doesnt really matter if it runs a little rich, i just want a turbo civic. the main focus of this is not buying a $3000 kit... kits are for little kids... if i wanted to spend 5000 i would have just bought another car.

here's how i break down the pricing, roughly.

$200 exhaust piping/flanges
$200 intercooler and piping
$100 oil feed lines and fittings
$200 ebay turbo/shipping
$300 management (injectors, FMU)
$200 sensors a/f guage, boost guage

everything else i can get next to nothing.. i've looked at guys running similar setups so i know i can get it working.. its not my daily driver its just sitting in my driveway with nothing to do. i bought it coz i wanted a honda to mess around with... if i blow it.. then ill swap to ZC or b18. for now why waste a good stock motor.

 

In the world of hondas, turbo + cheap = half-assed.

I'm not saying you have to spend every dime you've saved since grade school, but doing the bare minimum "just so it would run" isn't going to give you the full benefit/appreciation of what a boosted honda could, and should be.

I've seen some very fast junkyard turbo cars, who spent next to nothing, except when it came to management. It's a lot cheaper to spend the money and time upfront to make everything work well than it is to fix piddly things several times and the frustration that goes with it.

 

its all a matter of keeping it as simple as possible, that way little can go wrong... if i have to tune it for reliability and not performance then still, theres no way u can tell me that a GSR can match the torque of any turbo... so its just the best way to make power... i mean there is a prestige in your car being all motor, but u cant argue with results.

 

Reactionary bullshit, yes there are far more elegant means of fuel delivery, but FMU setups have been time tested and proven. Yes it is absolutely doable for your goals. You need not overengineer your solution.

-PHiZ

 

:down:

The "primitive" ECU setup that he is talking about is most likely a vaccuum advance setup , and thusly should not be used on a boosted motor at all(unplug the vaccuum line to the dizzy).

This guy runs 10PSI daily on a vaccuum advance dizzy and FMU.
http://www.crimethink.org/swift2/cwdata/DSCF0588.html

-PHiZ