8000

6 or 7K would be plenty for me! What exactly happens when you "pop" a spring? Thanks for your replies, too, boom. I really appreciate you guys taking me to school before I do this.

I have, and will follow the instructions in, the Helm manual, but is there anything complicated about pulling the pistons? I've never been inside the bottom end of a motor before, but it seems like I would just pull the pan, unbolt the rods, turn the crank (or just push the pistons up), and voila, out come the pistons. Is it that easy?

 

sorta.
just make sure to cover the rod studs with rubber hose or tape, to prevent them from scraping the walls of the cylinder during removal.
also remember about the piston rings, they have to be aligned, but the helms has directions for that. also try to align the new pistons the same way the old ones came out.


the main rev weakness of most hondas, is the head. usually reving too high will result in a valve spring popping out due to a failed retainer. the general way to correct that is to use Ti retainers and racing springs and valves.

~boom

 

Ooops, good catch on that. I saw the headwork and just kinda filled in springs and cams myself I guess.

I'd still be tempted to swap the rods because with all the port work, he won't need to open the engine again to install new valve springs and cams.

Usually you'll just float a valve. That happens when your engine is spinning too fast and the spring isn't stiff enough to pull the valve back up before the piston comes up. Usually results in bent valves at best or total destruction of the engine at worst. (Piston trashes valve, valve head falls off, puts a hole in piston, then kablooie.)

I think the Helms suggests pushing the pistons and rods out with the handle of a hammer.

 

he'd probably have the head work done by a shop, i didnt machine my head on my first motor, i just changed the stem seals. I dont burn a drop of oil at 55k+ since rebuild

notes: honda motors last as long as they are taken care of

he has a SOHC VTEC, that means that he has lost motion assemblies pushing up on the rocker ramp assembly when VTEC is active, per 2 valves. floating the valves is more common on hydraulic lifter's, like you mentioned earlier. so he is more likely to pop a retainer due to the rpms we are talking about here. my cams spin at nearly 16k rpms each when i am revlimiting at 8000 in a 2.2 liter. my valvetrain is designed for high rpm operation and annoying as it may be sometimes, god help you if your next to me on the highway.
this is the difference between SOHC and DOHC VTEC motors
power.
by adding compression you are getting more HP/Liter, but the SOHC head can only flow so much.

it does. :bandito:

 

Okay. So, assuming all goes well, how long of a job are we talking about? I have the exhaust and brace removed from below the pan, so I'm ready to roll (the head's already off). I'm guessing about an hour to get the pistons out. That about right? I'm ordering pistons today: my pistons raceeng pistons with Wiseco rings: $391 (includes wrist pins and locks).

Now, I know you guys are hardcore engine builders, but for an average joe (like myself) who will keep his motor below redline, everything should hold up A-ok for the forseeable future, yes?

Any reason to get this thing tuned after I button up the motor?

 

yea id get a VAFC2 and get to a dyno for sure. doubt your ecu will have an easy time with that jump in CR and fuel requirements.

~boom

 

those LMAs are only there to keep the vtec rocker from flapping around when they are not locked to the other two rockers. Thats why the springs in them are pretty soft compared to valve springs, if the head actually relied on the LMAs to prevent valve float, you'd probably have valve float off idle,

and stock retainers are pretty strong actually, we can rev out our b16 and b18c1 heads to like 9k all day long with stock retainers and upgraded springs. The advantage of Ti retainers is mainly weight. And if your breaking retainers, your most likely having coil bind issues and not from reving too high.


I think you have that the wrong way buddy, the cams spin at HALF the speed of the crankshaft, not double the speed, :rofl:, and why must god help me if i'm next to you on the highway? 8k is weak sauce, u can spin that all day long in a stock h22, though you wont be making power anywhere above 7k with stock h22 cams.


Just because its a sohc head doesnt meant it can't be made to flow, with the right head work, you can make it flow just as well. Though from the factory DOHC honda heads out flow SOHC heads no doubt. By no means are you limited just because you have a SOHC engine though.


And finally to answer the guys original question, you will be fine with 11:1 compression and pump gas, though I would definitely suggest some form of engien management, the bare minimum being an AFC of some sort. Perferably a chipped p28 or something so u can play with ur ignition maps too. As far as the rods go, I think you should be ok if you really don't got the money, but don't beat the piss out of it all day long, cuz u'll be asking for trouble. Also for compression that high, you really want some fatty cams to take advantage of that, but that in turn will require some valve springs, but since ur only planning to spin 6-7k, stock retainers will be fine.

Oh and i noticed you already purchased the pistons, and it sounds like you got floating wrist pins, in that case, I am pretty sure your gonna need to get the stock rods rebushed to accept floating wrist pins, because I believe stock ones are pressed pins. And when putting new pistons in, you really need to atleast hone the walls so the rings can seat properly, but ideally you need to get the pistons clearanced, cuz there are variations in the bore size and what not, its not just a pop it in and go kinda deal. This is best left for a machine shop, unless you have all the proper tools to bore and hone a block if need be.

And yes, you NEED to get that tuned on a dyno, or the very least some street tuning with a wideband, upping the compressiong over 2 pts, is alot and i doubt the stock maps will do.

I am not trying to scare you, but it just sounds like your planning to popped the old pistons out, and pop in some new ones and call it a day? It takes alot more than that to do it properly. Please don't take offense if i miss read your post. I just don;t wanna see someone screw up their motor and brand new pistons cuz of improper install.

 

notice i said "when VTEC is active" in regard to the LMA's

he doesnt have a b16aX or b18cX guy

you may be right about the cams now that i think about it...

with my h23a1 tranny and h22a1 motor, my highway acceleration is very good in 3rd and 4th gears.
as far as "weak sauce" goes, id prefer to peak out my h22a around 7000 than rev out a b16 with no torque all the way to 9 champ
"u may want to change your cam to maximize performance"

"i hardly think the rods will be your main concern with the rev limit. the head, especially a SOHC head is going to have trouble getting the job done. you will probably pop a spring before 8000, maybe lower."

maybe you should read the whole thread next time, instead of blowing your load after 1 minute. :deek:

~boom

 

Okay quit the bickering. Both of you have made useful contributions to the thread, no point in having a penis size contest over the internet.

 

Well, there's a lot of good info here. (Sorry it's gettin kind of ugly... ) It sounds like you guys both know your stuff, so it's all good.

Okay, my plan from here: take stock rods and new pistons to the machine shop, and have them press on the new pistons. Rent an engine hone from Autozone, buy 400 grit stones and hone the cylinder walls myself. Install pistons according to Helms. Put the whole thing back together again. Then buy some type of engine management system (any recommendations?), install, then have it dyno tuned.

I hope you guys aren't pointing and saying, "this guy's in trouble". I think I'm fairly capable, I just need the right advice. Thanks for all your posts. Keep em coming, and I'll keep you up to date on my project. (I got the pistons in the mail by the way :yay: )