You have said it all. I admire your intellegence.

 

The Yellow Mustang Registry is the 1,403,193rd most popular site in North America.

HAN is the 63,636th most popular site (up about 1,000 since this started), and we intend to get up into the 30,000's soon.

The needs of the two sites would be different, and the goals are different.

That's a very good, legitimate point. There is, however, a difference between running a site that Osaka Motors will sponsor and running a site that Opak wants to sponsor.

There's no arguing. You're to be congratulated for being a part of a successful organisation. The fact remains, however, that our goals are different, as are the goals of the sponsors we'd want to attract.

There's a big difference, IMHO, between selling car parts and openly promoting or allowing an activity during the pursuit of which hundreds of people are killed every year, including innocent people who weren't involved in the activity, and which activity raises everyone's insurance rates to unaffordable levels.

IMHO, one could label one thing as "unwise" but label the other thing as "criminal and depraved."

IMHO, of course.

 

I don't know about anybody being banned. I wouldn't be surprised though if a person asked in the Integra forum, 'which carb for my 71 Mustang?', a moderator might lock the thread with the reply, 'we don't know jack about Fords, try Yellow Mustang Registry, they'll help you out.' If that person then kept asking questions about their Mustang in the Integra forums, eventually I'd guess they'd get banned for being a nuisance.

You're right, they all have different tolerances for what they'll risk. Some will indeed risk being associated with an illegal activity in order to make a buck. Some won't. I'd be surprised if Ford sponsored a Kills Forum. As for them sponsoring magazines with go-fast parts, Ford never tells you you have to go fast, just that you can.

You're absolutely right. Members have every right not to like it. Leaving because of it is shortsighted IMO, but whatever floats one's boat.

 

As I mentioned YMR isn't as big of a discussion board as it is an arrangement of members for meetings. They haven't really promoted the discussion board as much. I don't believe that the goals of the two sites sponsors are dramaticaly different. The sponsors want to be seen. One just is more into meetings and show and shine events and actively arranging meetings.....which is quite credable. Both cases, the sponsors want to sell gear. My point was that the sponsors that support YMR don't take exception to the kills section because sponsoring the website doesn't mean they endorse content or share the opinions....make sense? That was all I was saying there.

The last point you made about ilegal activity and insurance........I don't suggest that anyone promote illegal activity. However, I think as long as you promote performance parts and development for street cars (especially more affordable ones) then you are contributing just as much if not more, to the problem of more cars being driven hard on the street than whether you have a kill stories fourm or not. With sponsor links and information for less expensive vehicles that more people can afford, you allow more people access to performance parts which could ultamatly lead to more cars being driven harder on the street.........with more numbers means more percentage for accidents. I'm not saying that anyone openly promotes any type of activity.........I am merely pointing out the the spear is double headed in this case, cutting off one end makes it no less of a problem, or less promoted in some fashion, whether you or the sponsors personaly classify it as such "promotion" or not.

And with insurance, performance parts and modification up insurance rates way more than a single accident or speeding ticket. The reason is, that they can not trust that you correctly modify the car (IE suspension geometry being upset by merely replacing springs without matched struts). If you want REAL daily driven hot-rod coverage (I'm not talking simply not reporting your mods to insurance) then you will pay up to a $4000 deductable and a huge premium for a modified daily driver........IF and IF the company will even insure you. Most big companies will not touch a modified car. Smaller ones will insure you if you provide pictures, instalation detail, and receipts.......which is more for protection of your investment because the rates are so staggering that you can hardly classify it as insurance. I have investigated this recently and was very suprised at my findings. Contrary to popular belief, heavily modified cars can be covered for a good rate...BUT it is like classic car insurance, they must be stored in a locked facility when not used, the driver usualy needs to be 25 or older, only driven occasionaly, and you must have a registered daily driven car to use for your commute to work or daily driving needs. But for daily driven modified cars.......look out.........the rates are staggering. Insurance wants no more to do with performance parts than they do with previously convicted drunk drivers.

I am not against what you folks want to do with the site and I think it's good that it is growing. I am just mentioning a few points about image that I think are a bit fallacious. The whole industry of performance parts and cars is shady when it comes to laws, insurance and a pristine image. That is a fact. Whether you promote the activities that modified street cars participate in (exempting closed circuit racing for non-street liscensed or insured vehicles) or whether you promote the parts for them, you are still part of the overall shady picture, and could never be a recognized company that is fully supported and encouraged by the lawmakers or insurers. See what I'm saying? In the same breath, you may think there are degrees of shady......a company that supported racing on route 2 every Thursday night with a sign in their shop would be frowned upon way more than a shop like "Honest Al's" that would modify a car but not promote what to do with it. Both contribute to the problem, but one pushes it more.......I see where you are trying to go with that.........BUT ..........wrong is wrong regardless of the degree.

Anyway, I am still writing posts here and reading and I don't have any complaints. Please don't view this as such. And for the Owners.....sure a domestic section may be a welcome edition, you are obviously planning for growth by mentioning that. Just consider some of the points I mentioned about image and insurance.....they can not be overcome. Some of us performance car groups have been trying to make it more reputable through 40 years of production and despite having direct manufacturer support, we are no closer to satisfying lawmakers or insurance companies alike. Have a good one

 

I appreciate your taking the time to write all that, honestly. Thanks.

Someone else involved in the discussion said something similar. However, I disagree, with respect.

The most sacred law of the land is, itself, relative. We have different "degrees" and "classes" of misdemeanours and felonies, and a judge is allowed to modify a sentence even within a class or degree of a crime in order to suit the circumstances of the crime. (And I say this without saying that selling performance parts is anything close to a crime. It's just an example.)

Thanks again for taking the time you've taken w/this.

 

Ok, so now I can't reply to your answer? uhmm.. ok. And who's the "Nazi" again? :shrug:

And again, since you all seem so concerned about me changing the TOS to prevent your opinions.. think a little bit.. why would I waste my time doing something so childish and.. well.. stupid?

 

Because the kind of person you are.

 

Ok Justin, let's see how good you are.

Find me ONE post in this forum where I said "You can not state your opinion of the rule". Find just ONE.

Until you find that I'd like to ask that you think before you post. You might just save yourself from looking like a fool.

The Ford guy seems to be the most intelligent pro-street race topic guy here, perhaps some of you should be more like him.

 

No problem! I sense a philosophy major in our midst.....you and I could argue about this point for a long time......degrees of evil......some of us believe in degrees (which for humanity sake and the goodness of forgiveness we must have within society) but degree or not, they are under the heading of wrong. Like guilt by association.......a man can show someone where to buy a gun and how to use it, and who to kill, but not pull the trigger.....has still contributed to the crime.

Anyway.....that's philosophy and arguementation and I'm not saying that selling performance parts is a crime, I'm just saying it isn't the cleanest business out there and that if one wishes to have a clean image, it's not the business to be in. It contributes to a problem on public roads, much like you are saying that supporting a forum like Kill stories does. But you know, I have to give full marks for your attempt to limit the references to illegal activity. Thank you for your intelligent remarks in return, it is nice to have some thought provoking discussion about this.

 

Thank you sir. I do have to say that I am not Pro-Street race or fighting to have a fourm re-instated. I just wanted to offer some of my knowledge in reference to the clean image idea in regards to performance parts, insurance and that kind of thing. And I agree with you that you will be less of a "trashy" company if you don't go out of your way to promote or allow illegal activities to be discussed.

Just as a goodwill jesture I will say that companies can provide performance parts and even fast cars, but it's up to the owners to have restraint. As a Mustang owner, I know I am a wanted man when it comes to young kids souping up Civics and Integras just so they can see what they can do against the Mustang. Do you think that I will encourage an 18 year old in a dropped Civic to race? No I refuse to do that no matter how much of a jerk he may be yelling at me and stuff.......in a few years he'll mellow out. This is why I have to accept your attempts to make people more responsible as well. Sure I have had a few runs on the road albeit few and far between, because my style is more of getting a heavy foot on Sunday on a back country road with nobody else around and simply enjoying the changes I have made to the car.

Anyway, I would take you up on your idea for some sort of domestic thread or something.......but being a real car lover I can talk tech and contribute positvely to many other threads meanwhile. I guess the main reason I would be sorry to see this fourm go is because we had some good discussions here in the past in regards to tech and stuff.....but other fourms will follow.