ezlynx

I only fix small-time stuff (some electrical, exhaust, fans). I just had my master cylinder, booster, and the front flex lines replaced on my '89 civic station wagon that I love (always starts, runs great, 97,000 mi) by a local small shop.

They waited to call me until the end of the day. They tell me my car needs a "tuneup", that it is missing but is better after it warms up. This was news to me.

Pulling out of the shop, seemed like the idle was set high and it was driving funny. Harder to get it moving forward. Clutch seemed somehow different.

Damn if it doesn't break down within 5 or 6 blocks. It dies, blocking the road. A cop comes by, we think of getting it moved off the road. It starts, I have him follow me. It's running bad. I'm going down a hill and depress the clutch to take some of the strain of the engine and it is not rolling like a normal car would. It dies again on a boullevard, a tow truck conveniently pulls up to my left and he pulls me the block into their parking lot. Of course, they've cleared out. The engine is hot, antifreeze is leaking out.

I show up in the am before they get there. They say they'll fix it like it was.

What's wrong? The radiator is cracked just above the integral support bracket for the air intake, one of the spark plugs is covered in oil, and the booster they just stuck in is not releasing so the brakes are locked up.

They are trying to tell me these things "just happen" and they "just happened" at the wrong time.

I suspect someone leaned on the air intake and cracked the radiator. They are telling me that over the years it just kinda "cracks on its own" due to "vibrations".

Re the oil leak, they are telling me that my car that was running fine has old seals and they "just fail at any time".

As for noticing the locked brakes, two different people drove it and never noticed anything was wrong with the car. I could tell it was driving poorly and there had to be some kind of problem. After they replace the radiator, discover the reason they're having problems getting it running is oil in a cylinder but finally get it going, I ride in the car with one of the guys. He says how it is working great and drives fine. I tell him to let it roll down a slight hill. EXCEPT IT DOESN'T. Moves slowly but nowhere like it should in neutral. By the way, this guy tells me they design brakes to drag -- that it's a "safety feature" and the back brakes are always dragging. Right.

Anyway, they put it on the lift and all the brakes are locked up.

They needed ME to tell them this??? They claim the new booster is not releasing and is defective. I don't know if they installed it wrong or not.

They insist that old age and happenstance caused the seals to fail and the radiator to spew antifreeze (by the way, the antifreeze sprays onto the distributor which they replaced two months previously).

They stick to their guns that I should pay for this stuff that they are only responsible for the brakes and failed booster. That they DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE WEREN'T WORKING.

So, from where I am, none of this would have happened if they had not somehow cracked the radiator (pic: http://www.guinealynx.info/photos/radiator3.jpg ) and installed a faulty booster, not even noticing that it wasn't working right, so my car is under heavy load and likely overheats (it was 98 degrees on this day in Virginia). I leave their shop under the impression things are fixed, tested, the car needs new wires and plugs, and in less than a mile, it breaks down.

So, being a primitive being with a rudimentary knowledge of cars (and having fixed simple things only), maybe I have mistaken expectations of what is reasonable to expect them to do. What do you all think?

The owner was on vacation. He'll be back tomorrow, when the new booster should be in.

What should I expect them to do?

ChrisS

The brake booster shaft that depresses the master cylinder is adjust too long. (causing the brakes to drag)

The booster needs to be adjusted to match the master cylinder correctly. Look at the honda factory manual. There's an adjustment nut on the firewall side of the booster on the shaft that connects to the brake pedal. They'll need a special honda tool and a hand operated vacuum pump with a gauge to do the adjustment correctly.

I would expect my car to be running as before I took it in. (minus the brake problems)

ezlynx

I wondered if they might have adjusted it incorrectly. Their story was that it was defective.

I got a service manual 17 years ago. I offered it to them for reference (brought it along). They seemed uninterested. I would not be surprised if they put it in wrong.

ezlynx

They replaced the "defective" booster. I think you are correct that it was adjusted wrong. They made the radiator my responsibility. Even calling the police over to ensure I would pay (the owner sent out a couple employees to disable the car so I couldn't drive it). I looked at the bill and realized it was so high because they'd added the cost of the replacement booster that I had ALREADY paid for to it.

So I made them fix the bill, paid it, and drove off.

I'm looking in to small claims court. I think I need to evaluate if there was any other damage done to the car before I do so (check for a blown head gasket or warped head).

I understand checks are testing compression; uneven idle; pulling plugs and turning over engine to look for coolant; and checking exhaust for coolant or oil burning. I'll do a search and see if I can figure out anything else to look for (would probably have the dealer check).

HONDA_driven

Thats B.S. that shop is giving you the shaft bro. I wasnt there to justify that, but I am a former private technician. I've seen these things happen when a tech screws something up and the shop covers up the problem. Had your valve seals been going out... it would've been gradually leaking worse and worse. They dont just start "pouring" oil into a cylinder the second you pick it up, and be bone-dry and leak free just hours previously while the car was "not running and in a shop". Sounds fishy bro..---------------------------------90 CRX SI-R B16A

ezlynx

The car seems to be running okay. Not missing at all -- or at least very little (ac and fan are pretty noisy -- perhaps a very random fairly unobtrusive miss here or there but seems okay). The dealer tells me I would have a strong indication there was a problem if they'd blown the head gasket and practically recommended against spending the $84 for diagnostics if there were no obvious problems driving the car.

By the way, the car failed the inspection because of brakes -- there was a loose bolt in the new brake lines.

I also checked the antifreeze level with my ancient tester and it was only "one ball" vs. five. Took it to a radiator place and they used their fancy equipment to tell me it was about 31% antifreeze and the rest water.

When I returned to have the shop fix the brakes so it would pass inspection, I asked them about the antifreeze mix. Owner said normally they would do a 60/40 antifreeze/water mix on a car like mine. Said it seems to be much less. My tester still showed one ball; the "professional model" the shop owner had, I couldn't read too well (I was not holding it), but he claimed it was more and was adequate (perhaps 3 or 4 balls?). He refused to call the radiator guy (who told me he was a friend of the shop owner).

I don't think the shop added any antifreeze to the over flow tank. What was there (below the min) was watery. The owner told me the reason it was low was that it was hot and as the car cooled, it would fill up. Well, we all know hot stuff contracts and cold stuff expands. I don't know why I didn't think of that. Right.

The owner essentially told me to get lost and take him to court. Since I aim to please, guess I will do so.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, as discussed earlier, the booster was probably not defective but installed wrong. I grabbed the installation instructions that came with the new booster. Under trouble shooting "Brakes won't release", it says:

"Master cylinder compensating ports blocked; Push rod out of adjustment; Master cylinder malfunction; Binding damaged pedal linkage"

What they said was that the vacuum was not releasing. They kind of popped it to release the vacuum. I imagine it is normal to have vacuum any time the booster is operating correctly. How would I go about getting proof I could take to court to demonstrate it was not defective but installed wrong? Maybe I can find a book the describes how they work and how a defective booster would act? Any suggestions?

I'm figuring the judge will not have an automotive background.

HONDA_driven

Go to any auto parts store and pick up a Haynes manual for your vehicle. It will give specific information in details with pictures describing tear down/ rebuild procedures as well as trouble shooting vehicle systems, i.e. Hydraulic systems(brakes), electrical, drivetrain, etc.

90_crx_flaze

that does sound pretty messed up, when you leave a shop you expect no problems, your car went into the shop with brake problems and came out with extra problems, radiators just dont leak when you drive out the shop it went in the shop working, they had no buisness with the radiator and now its cracked they owe you

speedfreak7

sounds like some shady mofos