LittleDragon

Hm... now that you've suggested them... Maybe I will go get myself a Lanzar and Audiobahn or even better yet RoadMaster at Wal-Mart... Along with that I think I'll go get some 18 gauge wiring too!

Mofo, I know you're probably sick and tired of noobs asking you what to get for their "system" but I just thought it was unnecesary for you to flame on me since I was the last one to post up not specifying the price range of an amp I was looking for. To tell you the truth if I had a "fawken" idea of what I was looking for I'd specify it, but since I didnt I wanted to leave it up to you since those who are more knowledgeable may be able to guide "us noobs" in the right direction. I did however specify the components of my system and that should have given you some clue as to what amps you could have suggested (read your earlier post you knew I wasnt looking for a $95,000 amp)

A simple question of "what price rang are you looking for?" or a simple answer of JL Audio 450/4 would have been suffice...

Thanks anyways... this board has been extremely helpful!

SiClone

Hey, we are helpful for those people who really want help and are specific in asking for it.... I would have been happy as heck if there was a place like this to help and guide me when I started getting into car audio 15 years ago... Instead, I went through an R/T 3 way sub box, an LA Sound amp, and a Sansui amp before getting on the right path (not sure if its really right but it sounds pretty good )... We're here to help and in order for us to do that, we need to know what you want and what you have to work with. That's it. It's nothing personal against you. You just happened to be the guinea pig that made me snap, kinda.

Anyway, feel free to ask more questions. But please try and be specific. That way you'll get the best advice and opinions from your fellow HAN members. :thumbup:

97teg

Just wondering why you would be cheating yourself to go with a jl amp?

rcurley55

JL's RIPS system (a technology on their slash amps) means that it's amplifiers put out identical power into various impedances. Most amplifiers on the market put out more power as you drive it to a numerically lower load (i.e. it makes more power at 2 ohm stereo then it does at 4 ohm) This is not the case for the JL.

This means that the JL 300/4, when used in a 3 way application (components and a single subwoofer), will produce 75W to each comp set, and 150W to the sub.

Take for example my Arc Audio 4150. In the same configuration as the JL we just discussed, it would make 80W to the components and 320W to the sub.

Now do you see what I mean by "cheating" yourself?

Don't get me wrong, JL amps are nice, and they have some good features. Unfortunately, they do not make an amp that really satisfies this simple application. They have tried to "fix" this problem with the 450/4 (or whatever you call it) and I still think that they fell short.

97teg

Yeah i see your point but also if you listen with your speakers off then you will actually get more power cause the inpit voltage can vary without varying the output which can be nice. Form what ive read in testing (i know people are saying that is bias) but it pumped out 90 watts into a stright resistive load and will almost double its power when driving a reactive load like a speaker. That is just straight test numbers. In a reactive 4 ohm bridged load it put out 230 watts x 2. I think you would have to compair it to the arc 4050 and not the 4150.

rcurley55

How do you listen with your speakers off? I'm going to assume that you meant car off?

If you have a healthy charging system, then you can assume that with the car on, both will see 14.4V. It's true that you will get more power from the JL with the car off though. But I drive my car, I don't listen to it parked very often. Also, these JL amps (b/c of the RIPS system) are total current hogs - putting an even larger strain on your charging system.

I'd love to see the test. I'd also love to see the magazine where a huge 2 page JL advertisement followed the test.

Why would you compare the 4050? The 4050 is a 55w x 4 amp - that means that it is rated at 20W less per channel then the JL (a difference of 27%), while the 4150 is an 80W per channel amp - only 5W more per channel (a 7% advantage for the Arc). Seems to me like the 4150 is still a better comparison, unless you want to bias things toward the JL of course.

Even if I had a screw loose, and used the 4050 for a comparison, it still makes 180W when bridged to a 4 ohm mono load - that's still 30W AHEAD of JL's rating. Rest assured that the Arcs are under-rated.

I never said the JL was a bad amp, and I'm not trying to start a JL v Arc war, I just find that for some applications, they plain suck. Especially for a system like I run. I use horns. JL doesn't make an amp in their slash series small enough to power them. I also use 2 ohm midbasses - again, I get no power benefit from running a 2 ohm midbass driver as I do with any other amp on the market.

It's a glass half empty/half full proposition - depends on how you want to look at it. For this particular application, I think the JL amps suck. For some other style systems, I would consider trying them.....

97teg

If you are looking at the same price range then yes you can compair the arc 4050 to the jl 300/4. If i was gonna compare amps in power i would say put the zapco c2k 2.5 up against the arc. The zapco is much more expensive but its the same power. It depends waht you are comparing. I usally go by a price range and what i can get for that amount of money. Im sure almost every reputable manufacturer worth anything underrates their amps including jl and arc. For this guys purposes he is not runnig horns. Also 2 ohm mids are nice but don't seem to be very common either. Since they are fairly rare it doesn't makes sence to make an amp for them. I agree that some amps are better suited for some jobs than other. If youa re gonna run the sub bridged then i don't think the 30 extra watts is going to make a difference. For this guys system I wouldn't think the 300/4 would be a bad amp. If he was gonna run your setup i would go with another amp. By looking at the stuff in your sig i can tell you really know what your talking about so ill stop

rcurley55

I just selected that amp because I'm familiar with it, and it's in the correct power range - I wasn't trying to say that the JL or Arc were better for the money. For example, I used to own a RF 600a4 - got it for around $250, it was rated as follows:

75x4 @ 4 ohm
300 x 2 @ 4 ohm mono
It benched at 840W+ total power

So, once again, when you look at rated power, you have your "typical" amp making double the rated power when bridged then the JL.

It boiled down to me explaining why I feel you get "cheated" when you use a JL - it had nothing to do with pricing. I agree though that usually (when dealing with a budget) comparing products by price point is a good way to go.

No one "makes" an amp to run 2 ohm mids, but it is nice for those of us who do use them - it's especially nice for those who like to run multiple dedicated midbass drivers (or DVC drivers) in their doors to get a good power bump.

I'd consider a 20% increase pretty significant

What I run in my sig doesn't mean we can't have a friendly discussion about it You are making some great points, and I think JL makes a great product....I think they are in the top 5 companies that I would consider building an enitre system with one manufacturer with.

I guess what I should say is that you can't go wrong with it, I just think you can do better.

97teg

Ok i lied about stopping Well yes 30 watts is 20% but doesn't it take mostly twice the power to make a 3db gain that is noticable but not blow yourself away huge? I don't know if that is the same for mids and highs actually i hope not cause i bought a new amp 85x4 instead of 50 watts form the phoenix gold. Anyways but isn't that generally accepeted for subs and I think thats what he is gonna run the bridged channel off right? Most people don't run multiple mids although the idea is cool I wouldn't mind but for me one pair is going to have to do for a while atleast. Lastley i think there will always be something better and i guess even "better" depends on who you talk to. I don't want anyone to think i don't like arc either. I was trying anyway to get a pair of 2050's in but it just wasn't in my budget. Both zapco and arc represent Modesto CA very well which is near where Im from origonally I guess thats part of it but i also think their products are awsome.