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should i.....

Old 09-05-2002, 07:40 AM
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long
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just had a quick question....again

should i sell my two punch amps 400.4/800.2 for like 400 and pay 770 for two jl amps 300.4/500.1 or should i just stick to what i have?

6.5 MB quart components
6x9 3way speakers
2 12" JL w3 subs
Panasonic dfx 701U

thnx
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Old 09-05-2002, 10:37 AM
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rcurley55
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That's a major "depends" type of a question. The 500.1 will be more efficient for the subs then the 800.2, but on the other hand...while you will have more power for the cabin speakers, you will take another big efficiency hit over the 400.4.

Personally, I say if it ain't broke...don't try and fix it.

Your cabin speakers will benefit from a bit more power, that's for sure, but you need to ask yourself if it's worth $370 for the JL's. IMO, they look a bit nicer, definitely have a great crossover section, and are good amps.

The RF's have a bit more flexibility then the JL's becasue of the RIPS system.

I would also look into the heat factor of those RF amps. The one's I have owned in the past could have worked well at the tail-gate party as bbq's....I'm not sure if that's an issue for you or if the JL swap would run cooler.

As you can see, there really is no way to decide this one...there are benefits to both systems. If anyone tells you one way or another with no real good explanation, then I would say they are a bandwagon jumper. Both are quality setups. I say it comes down to money.

Just my $0.02
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Old 09-05-2002, 10:58 AM
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igo4bmx
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i would compare birth certificates too, and check how much power the jl's would put out compared to the RF
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Old 09-05-2002, 11:09 AM
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thnx.....

the rf amps are like ovens. my 800 isnt that hot because i have the bass turned all the way down. the 400 heats up so bad that it cuts out sometimes for a couple of seconds and its only my mid/highs.... if i dont buy the jl's ill probably wanna buy a 600.4 punch just so it doesnt get so hot.

whats the RIPS system? the way it distributes the heat? sorry lost me there. im thinking the jl's would run cooler. but i cant say for sure. i have no experience with them.

i dont necessarily need more power for my cabin but it would be nice. i know the 500 would work better with my subs. just cant decided if its worth it.

i know for a fact my 400.4 isnt really giving good power to my cabin because its 50x4 at 4ohm and my mid/high are all 4 ohms. so if i went with the 300.4 from jl ill get the 75w.

if i have more wattage does that mean it'll run cooler when the volume is the same?
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Old 09-05-2002, 01:12 PM
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rcurley55
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Originally posted by long
thnx.....

the rf amps are like ovens. my 800 isnt that hot because i have the bass turned all the way down. the 400 heats up so bad that it cuts out sometimes for a couple of seconds and its only my mid/highs.... if i dont buy the jl's ill probably wanna buy a 600.4 punch just so it doesnt get so hot.
RF's heatsink design...by using the casing as a major source of convective cooling makes it get very hot...they are hot by design. A 600.4 being cooler...not sure...more later on...


whats the RIPS system? the way it distributes the heat? sorry lost me there. im thinking the jl's would run cooler. but i cant say for sure. i have no experience with them.
The RIPS system is the cornerstone of the JL amps design IMO. It involves a very tightly regulated power supply that causes the amplifier to provide the same power at any impedance between 1.5 and 4 ohms with any imput voltage between 11 and 15V. (don't nitpick me on the voltage nubmers...I don't run JL's, and I'm not 100% sure). THis means that you will get the same output when your car is off as when it's on. It also means that you can run many different loads on a channel and have the same power output...more on that feature later.

A loosly regulated supply (soundstream is a perfect example) design allows you to gain more output as your input voltage increases. This means that your amp makes more power at when the car is on then when it's off.

There are some benefits to the power supply in the JL...it means you always get full output from the amp, but conversely, it can be an amperage whore.....as input voltage decreases, amperage must be increased to maintain steady output. This can be an added strain on your alternator, depending on how good your electrical system is.

The impedance part of the rips system means that the amp will output the same amount of power at any load between 1.5 and 4 ohm stereo. Some people see this as a benefit, others as a nuisance. Personally, I like to run a lot of Image Dynamics gear, so that means alot of 2 ohm stereo loads, so the JL amps don't do much for me. I don't get the extra power bump I do when you use something like the Arc's I run. T

he JL isn't the best for someone who likes funky impedances....if you are not one of these people, then the JL can be easier.

The JL people say...."well, you get what you paid for. You bought a 300W amp, and you don't have to run it at 2 ohms to get all 300W"

The non-JL people say..."We buy an amp based on the 4-ohm power rating....we get "free" power when we run at a lower impedance....we don't buy total power....we buy it by the channel"


i dont necessarily need more power for my cabin but it would be nice. i know the 500 would work better with my subs. just cant decided if its worth it.
Power is king...enough said there. I don't see why you would feel that the 500.1 would be better for your subs....maybe the decreased amperage draw would be a benefit, but the decreased power output (800W v. 500-600 ish --- there are arguments as to what JL amps really put out) would hurt a bit in SPL capabilities. W3's are rated for up to 500W each, but that's stretching it according to JL....a pair of W3's on a 500.1 is definitely what would keep the people in the RMA department at JL happy.


i know for a fact my 400.4 isnt really giving good power to my cabin because its 50x4 at 4ohm and my mid/high are all 4 ohms. so if i went with the 300.4 from jl ill get the 75w.
Well, again, both amp manufacturers can be a bit fuzzy on the ratings...some people say the JLs are under rated....I know for a fact that the RF is...I've used the older trapezoid series in the past, and not much has changed that I'm aware of. I'm certain that RF makes a capable amp, and if you have it properly setup, it should be putting out plenty of "good" power.


if i have more wattage does that mean it'll run cooler when the volume is the same?
Same amp, same manufacturer, I would go so far as to say yes, but if you play it louder, you actually have more heat to dissipate, but more heatsink to do it with...I'm not 100% sure on this fact, so don't quote me...I'm looking at it from an ME/HVAC position, and that definitely is a different perspective then an EE's. I'm just giving a quick gut feeling.

Sorry that got really wrong....and I apologize for any mistakes in there...I wrote it in a hurry....others with conflicting info, feel free to correct me.

In conclusion....would the JL's work for you...yes....if it was my $$$ and I simply wanted a change...I would run a 300/2 and the 500/1. But that's just me. I don't like amped rears...but the 300/4 would be a great setup to you. If you want to keep the setup...bridge the 400.4 to the fronts, run the rears off the headunit....you will get more power to the fronts. They will get more dynamic and louder. Should help you keep up with those subs. Just make sure the fronts can handle that type of power and that you have them properly crossed over
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Old 09-05-2002, 02:49 PM
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There are some benefits to the power supply in the JL...it means you always get full output from the amp, but conversely, it can be an amperage whore.....as input voltage decreases, amperage must be increased to maintain steady output. This can be an added strain on your alternator, depending on how good your electrical system is.
yeah thats one reason i was thinking of getting them. since my mb quarts are rated at 4 ohm's im not getting the full potential of my amp. since rf amps are rated at 2 ohm loads. my alternator sucks. i think im pushing 70 amps. i was going to get it rebuilt but the place in town said they cant rebuild mine since Hyundais suck or something :D

Power is king...enough said there. I don't see why you would feel that the 500.1 would be better for your subs....maybe the decreased amperage draw would be a benefit, but the decreased power output (800W v. 500-600 ish --- there are arguments as to what JL amps really put out) would hurt a bit in SPL capabilities. W3's are rated for up to 500W each, but that's stretching it according to JL....a pair of W3's on a 500.1 is definitely what would keep the people in the RMA department at JL happy
i was just thinking the 250a speaker would of been better rather then pushing the 400 a speaker since i have the bass turned all the way down. i mean all the way and my speakers bump! guess i might be wrong.

Well, again, both amp manufacturers can be a bit fuzzy on the ratings...some people say the JLs are under rated....I know for a fact that the RF is...I've used the older trapezoid series in the past, and not much has changed that I'm aware of. I'm certain that RF makes a capable amp, and if you have it properly setup, it should be putting out plenty of "good" power.
yeah i know my rf amp 400.4 is rated at like 560 at 2 ohms. but that would still be pretty low when its down to 4 ohms. my mb component set said something like 125 i think or maybe more. i cant remember.

In conclusion....would the JL's work for you...yes....if it was my $$$ and I simply wanted a change...I would run a 300/2 and the 500/1. But that's just me. I don't like amped rears...but the 300/4 would be a great setup to you. If you want to keep the setup...bridge the 400.4 to the fronts, run the rears off the headunit....you will get more power to the fronts. They will get more dynamic and louder. Should help you keep up with those subs. Just make sure the fronts can handle that type of power and that you have them properly crossed over
ya know i never though of running my component set of the amp and my 6x9's of the deck. how would i actually beable to do that? hook the 6x9's directly to the deck and bascially take out the extra set of rca's? the mid/highs really arent having a problem keeping up with the subs. its just when it gets to hot it will shut off.
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