Cheap Speed
10-16-2005, 01:08 PM
#22
hatchbacks r my anti-drug
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Omniscient
So say CTR cams, crower valve train, and higher compression stock bore pistions. Won't give you credible gains? It's certainly more justifiable than spending 800$-1k on an intake/header/exhaust.
the more air a motor can flow... the more power it will make (provided that theres enough fuel)
so yeah, you'll see credible gains, but not if you dont have supporting mods.
10-16-2005, 02:08 PM
#23
I
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Westside til I die
Posts: 56,525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jimax
Again, simply going from cast to forged internals buys you nothing in terms of increased compression ratio. You don't increase compression unless you change the displacement of the engine. But that involves a whole level of additional complexities (fuel, air, software, etc.) that just aren't worth it. A turbo is way easier.
10-16-2005, 03:56 PM
#25
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 28,282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jimax
You don't increase compression unless you change the displacement of the engine. But that involves a whole level of additional complexities (fuel, air, software, etc.) that just aren't worth it. A turbo is way easier.
Originally Posted by dubcac
Unless you get forged pistons that have a larger dome height, creating higher compression ratio.
Originally Posted by Jimax
Someone else said change out the internals, and the intent of my reply was to say that changing out the internals on a N/A car and not adding F/I was complex, expensive, and provided negligible gains.
10-16-2005, 08:49 PM
#27
.....
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NoVA
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Civic2Scooby
:stupid:
actually changing the internals on an N/A car is the ONLY way your are going to see gains...look at any built N/A motor worth a damn and it is running 12:1 compression or more...wilder cams such as skunk2 stage 3s recommend a boost in compression for the cam to give the most gains....and as far as your comment earlier about not being able to up compression without changing the displacement of the motor, that is plian ignorance.
actually changing the internals on an N/A car is the ONLY way your are going to see gains...look at any built N/A motor worth a damn and it is running 12:1 compression or more...wilder cams such as skunk2 stage 3s recommend a boost in compression for the cam to give the most gains....and as far as your comment earlier about not being able to up compression without changing the displacement of the motor, that is plian ignorance.
Like I said earlier, if you go really complex (change dome on piston head), valves, cams, lifters, etc...sure yes that's feasible. But it's not a viable alternative. It's not a cheap one, nor is it an easy one. How much fuel do you need? How many PSIs does the fuel system have to be at? Are the fuel injectors up to the task? What about the timing advance/retard, how about how long the valves open up, or how far they open? Do they risk smacking the top of the piston since you changed them out? Can the MAF handle the additional air flow, and can the ECU compensate accordingly.
I am not speaking from ignorance, I am speaking from reality. Changing the internals is not a good solution to make more, cheap power. Adding a turbo or a S/C is, period. Changing the internals should only happen after you've converted your engine to F/I. There is absolutely no amount of intake/exhaust modding you could do that would damage a stock block if you don't go F/I. Telling someone to change internals and keeping the car N/A is ignorant.
10-16-2005, 09:05 PM
#28
warm butter on toast
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The boonies, CT
Posts: 6,485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jimax
Do you understand what compression is made of? It's the volume of air that is being compressed in the bore and stroke of the cylinder. The bore is Xmm in diameter and the stroke is Xmm in length. That area = the amount of air/fuel that can be injected into the combustion chamber. Unless you bore out the motor or change the stroke, you will not change your compression ratio, even with forged internals. Changing the type of metal does not add compression. If the bore and stroke are fixed, how do you expect to increase compression? The same volume of air will compress the same amount.
Like I said earlier, if you go really complex (change dome on piston head), valves, cams, lifters, etc...sure yes that's feasible. But it's not a viable alternative. It's not a cheap one, nor is it an easy one. How much fuel do you need? How many PSIs does the fuel system have to be at? Are the fuel injectors up to the task? What about the timing advance/retard, how about how long the valves open up, or how far they open? Do they risk smacking the top of the piston since you changed them out? Can the MAF handle the additional air flow, and can the ECU compensate accordingly.
I am not speaking from ignorance, I am speaking from reality. Changing the internals is not a good solution to make more, cheap power. Adding a turbo or a S/C is, period. Changing the internals should only happen after you've converted your engine to F/I. There is absolutely no amount of intake/exhaust modding you could do that would damage a stock block if you don't go F/I. Telling someone to change internals and keeping the car N/A is ignorant.
Like I said earlier, if you go really complex (change dome on piston head), valves, cams, lifters, etc...sure yes that's feasible. But it's not a viable alternative. It's not a cheap one, nor is it an easy one. How much fuel do you need? How many PSIs does the fuel system have to be at? Are the fuel injectors up to the task? What about the timing advance/retard, how about how long the valves open up, or how far they open? Do they risk smacking the top of the piston since you changed them out? Can the MAF handle the additional air flow, and can the ECU compensate accordingly.
I am not speaking from ignorance, I am speaking from reality. Changing the internals is not a good solution to make more, cheap power. Adding a turbo or a S/C is, period. Changing the internals should only happen after you've converted your engine to F/I. There is absolutely no amount of intake/exhaust modding you could do that would damage a stock block if you don't go F/I. Telling someone to change internals and keeping the car N/A is ignorant.
10-16-2005, 09:08 PM
#29
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 28,282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jimax
Do you understand what compression is made of? It's the volume of air that is being compressed in the bore and stroke of the cylinder. The bore is Xmm in diameter and the stroke is Xmm in length. That area = the amount of air/fuel that can be injected into the combustion chamber. Unless you bore out the motor or change the stroke, you will not change your compression ratio, even with forged internals. Changing the type of metal does not add compression. If the bore and stroke are fixed, how do you expect to increase compression? The same volume of air will compress the same amount.
Like I said earlier, if you go really complex (change dome on piston head), valves, cams, lifters, etc...sure yes that's feasible. But it's not a viable alternative. It's not a cheap one, nor is it an easy one. How much fuel do you need? How many PSIs does the fuel system have to be at? Are the fuel injectors up to the task? What about the timing advance/retard, how about how long the valves open up, or how far they open? Do they risk smacking the top of the piston since you changed them out? Can the MAF handle the additional air flow, and can the ECU compensate accordingly.
I am not speaking from ignorance, I am speaking from reality. Changing the internals is not a good solution to make more, cheap power. Adding a turbo or a S/C is, period. Changing the internals should only happen after you've converted your engine to F/I. There is absolutely no amount of intake/exhaust modding you could do that would damage a stock block if you don't go F/I. Telling someone to change internals and keeping the car N/A is ignorant.
Like I said earlier, if you go really complex (change dome on piston head), valves, cams, lifters, etc...sure yes that's feasible. But it's not a viable alternative. It's not a cheap one, nor is it an easy one. How much fuel do you need? How many PSIs does the fuel system have to be at? Are the fuel injectors up to the task? What about the timing advance/retard, how about how long the valves open up, or how far they open? Do they risk smacking the top of the piston since you changed them out? Can the MAF handle the additional air flow, and can the ECU compensate accordingly.
I am not speaking from ignorance, I am speaking from reality. Changing the internals is not a good solution to make more, cheap power. Adding a turbo or a S/C is, period. Changing the internals should only happen after you've converted your engine to F/I. There is absolutely no amount of intake/exhaust modding you could do that would damage a stock block if you don't go F/I. Telling someone to change internals and keeping the car N/A is ignorant.
and on a side note honda's dont run on MAF sensors.
10-16-2005, 09:10 PM
#30
warm butter on toast
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The boonies, CT
Posts: 6,485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Civic2Scooby
you still dont change the displacement of the motor to change compression...thats a great big long try and sound smart answer, but I wasnt talking about anything other than the fact that you are wrong about the change in compression having to equal change in displacement.
and on a side note honda's dont run on MAF sensors.
and on a side note honda's dont run on MAF sensors.
It's so true. Sure changing the displacement will give better results, but in no way shape or form do you need to up the displacement to change the compression. A lot of companies offer stock bore high compression pistons.