you are obviously not getting the point whatsoever. i'm very well aware that the romans would never back down from persecuting christians and many other people. i have no idea why you think i'm suggesting that they would. what i'm saying is purely hypothetical, since you can't seem to grasp that on your own.

for the third time, don't you think it would have been a much better idea to put aside differences and compromise to find a peaceful solution?

i think you need to work on your history, first of all. there were a few crusades that were not directed towards recapturing "the holy land," but most of them were. some of them were not commissioned by the papacy, either.

besides that, what is your point? the church didn't go and fight, the grunts did. the majority of those who fought and died in the crusades believed they were serving their god. what difference does it make what the motives of the church were? what you said was that millions of people have died for what they believe in - explain how that is not the case with the crusades?

dying for what you believe in can be noble. but it is not always a "strong" thing, as you assert. as i have been saying, there's much better things we could be doing with our lives and time than fighting each other and sacrificing ourselves for our religions. that would be much stronger than the waste of human life that you are ascribing to "strength"

 

First of all, anyone who would molest a child is a monster, just because someone wears a cassock, it does not make them pious, religious or even a good person. Some of the worst, most cold-hearted people I have ever met have been Catholic priests. I would argue that the priests to whom you refer could not possibly be truly religious, they just put on that mask.

Some of the folks who blow up abortion clinics say they are doing it in God's name, just like the Muslim extremists killing people. Crazy is as crazy does. Someone raised in a "God Fearing Household", whether that God is Allah or Yahweh, will at least have been exposed to the idea of right and wrong. If they are remotely sane and honest, they would at least have some glimmer of an impulse to do the right thing in a given situation. Of course, there are sociopaths out there, like the Chief Executive I allude to above. With them, all bets are off

 

So technically, God got us into this mess...

:rick:

 

in a nutshell yeah... if you believe in god and that he is omnipotent

 

this debate is still going on?

 

:rubbing hands:

Ahhh, yes, another spirited debate over our President. I haven't seen one of these since, oh, last year about this time.

I know I'm joining a bit late, but I couldn't help myself. Lord knows there's plenty of lunatic liberals on this thread, so another conservative is needed to balance things out a bit.

I have yet to hear President Bush say God spoke to him and told him to do anything. Does he have faith in a higher power? You bet. But I think everyone should have faith in something beyond life. Does he let his faith dicatate his decisions? Absolutely not. I think he prays alot that he made the right choices, and I guarantee you he prays every time one of America's finest makes the ultimate sacrifice. But President Bush is the President. Not some holy leader that some of you portray him to be. He doesn't operate in some ultimate supreme fashion (he really can't, anyway - most of the big decisions made in this country are made by congress.... for those of you who have yet to take political science 101), or like a hethan from the dark ages.

The extreme liberal wing of this country is what's keeping us from accomplishing things more quickly.

 

I think the heat over this debate ended last friday.
sorry:happysad:

 

So long as you realize you're quoting the president, based on what that wonderful, completely honest, leader of Palestine Mr. Abbas says Bush said.

Believe it if you want, just realize the source is the same guy that says Palestinians never act in aggression, merely react to Israeli aggression.

 

The White House is denying President Bush ever told top Palestinian officials that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and to work for the establishment of a Palestinian state in order to bring peace to the Middle East.
White House spokesman Ken Lisaius told The Chronicle Friday that the allegation was absurd. "He never made such comments," Lisaius said. He cited a briefing Thursday in which presidential press secretary Scott McClellan also denied that Bush had made such comments at a 2003 meeting in Jordan with Mahmoud Abbas, then the Palestinian prime minister, and Nabil Shaath, then the Palestinian foreign minister. McClellan said he had not been present at the meeting but had "checked into that report."

 

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