b00gers

:wavey:

Current teachers are paid more on a tenure-based system. Arnold proposed that it be switched to merit based. I am not sure about how they will judge the teacher's merit. But I would assume it be based on state test scores. What do you guys think about the switch?

Grifter

bad idea
we already have too few teachers as it is

Bl@ck

on one hand this could be seen as a motivation tool since it usually takes a small act of god to get rid of a sub-par tenured teacher.

on the other hand, teachers in inner city schools who generally are more concerned about which one of their students is strapped than their lessons get screwed in the deal.

i don't live in cali so i don't particularly care about cali's schools.. i am curious to see how this would pan out over the course of 5 or 10 years though.. cali can be the beta test :exnbp:

DakarM

against.

redgoober4life

No, definitely not.

I am not a fan of standardized testing. It tends to limit the teacher more than it helps them. Well it helps bad teachers because they wouldn't teach anything of importance anyway. NYS regents went under reform in the past 10 years. Not to make it more difficult, or more of a challenge, but to water it down.

But standardized test scores vary with more than just the teacher. The lovely NYS Regents "Math A" fall out where many students failed because the test doesn't actually test math anymore: it tests your ability to remember the same exact type of word problems that they give every year. So basing somebody's pay on stodgey tests and students that may be great one year and normal the next isn't exactly fair.

Case in point: my class had very high grades, and they did a top 25 students ceremony instead of a top 10. Should the teachers be compensated for this? I don't think so, I have some very hard working friends.

These teachers don't make that much anyway. They make a good amount depending on how long they've been teaching, but you're talking about people that have master's, put 70 hours into their work, and get less than 50k back, usually. They don't do it for the money, and they shouldn't. So motivating them by monetary rewards isn't going to do much.

chimchim

Sounds good to people who know nothing about insides of the education system (aka not teachers). Oversimplistic idea for those who are. How can these be implemented properly? The reality is, it's just a feel good thing that the Governator wants to do for his popularity... and that's it. Kiinda like the tobacco industry donating to lung cancer research.

Example:

My wife works her ass off as a teacher. She specifically choise the lower income schools specifically because she has a personal desire to help give disadvantage kids a better chance and she know education is power. She busts her butt probably 80+ hours a week. M-F she's there at 7:30 am for yard duty, then teaches kids with an inadequate amount of supplies (most teachers have to make up for lack of supplies the state doesn't give them with their OWN PAYCHECKS) until about 3pm. Here in california, most kids she's teaching are English 2nd language and some are fresh immegrants who DON'T EVEN SPEAK ENGLISH, literally. Translators? Ha. She has to use fellow students to translate. Most of the kids don't even speak English at home. Then after 3pm is the after school programs which last till 5pm. Then start grading papers, preparations etc to past 7pm. Come home and do some more prep. Weekends are planning and preparing curriculum. And Summers? BS. For 2 weeks after the kids get out teacher's clean up, and close up. 2-3 weeks before school starts, they gotta be there to setup up. and midsummer are necessary seminars and trainings to stay up to date. Not much summer left after this.

This this is an isolated story? Think again. Sure there are still the bad apple old fogeys who managed to get tenure and have allowed their work to deteriote to unacceptable levels. There's always the lameos.

Now how is the "merit" going to be measured? Test scores? How will teachers like my wife be recognized?

antarius

So long as we can develop some kind of grading curve for how "good" a teacher is, then I am all for it.

For instance, a teacher who purposely chooses the bad kids, or the less intelligent children, should have that weighed when determining how good of a teacher they are.

And, they should not determine "merit" based on standardized testing either. Because all that will do is make teachers do whatever is necessary to get their kids to pass that ONE test, rather than really focus on what might be important.

In my view it should look something like a teacher has a class, each student in that class has a GPA or just a grade for that particular course that the teacher is instructing; And over the course of the year if the teacher improves their grades and overall average, then the teacher is granted a higher "merit" rating than if they did not.

It's not fool proof, but it's the best way I can come up with to determine merit and who's a good teacher or who's not, and still taking into account the level of intelligence of the students they are facing.

Think of it sort of like boxing, a power punch is worth more than a jab -- in this case the bad or less smart kids would be the power punch.

Regardless of the sitaution, I definitely want some kind of accountability for teachers and more pay for them if they deserve it. That alone wont solve the problem, we need varied cirriculumn's based on a students learning style, and to remove standardized testing.

But holding teachers accountable is a necessary part of the equasion, and ugly part, but necessary. IMO.

Question:
Why can the U.S. military take an 18 year old screwed up un-intelligent kid and teach him how to drive a 5 billion dollar ship, guide cruise missiles, service and diagnose 500,000,000 stealth bombers, yet a teacher in a public school can't get them to learn Algebra 1?

Answer:
A lot of teachers can, but unfortunatly a lot can't -- and teaching is the only industry that people aren't held accountable for the performance of their job. If the instructor teaching the 18 year old how to command the ship keeps screwing up and causing kids to crash the carriers into other vessels, or mis-guide cruise missiles, guess what happens to that instructor? He gets removed. If he does a great job, what does he do? He gets to go instruct how to do more complex things and more important things -- and gets better pay while he does it.

The public school system should be no different in that regard.

sherwood

i'm against it, tachers do didly squat and should be paid NOTHING
it's always the paraprofessionals, aid's and LC teachers that do all the work... not these schmucks

DakarM

that's the mother of all generalizations.

sherwood

it's true, at least at a elementry level