H&R OE Sport Springs Re-visited
11-01-2004, 03:11 PM
#1
Black Pearl
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H&R OE Sport Springs Re-visited
Well, I got an alignment done last Friday for a couple of reasons. One was I wanted to make sure that everything was in spec for my piece of mind and two to see if anything had changed.
With the springs, everything in the front end was perfectly normal. If you want the exact specs, let me know and I'll post them for you.
The rear was what I was worried about. My rear tires have shown slight wear on the insides of the tires. The feathering pattern led me to believe that the toe may be out of wack.
Upon taking it to the shop, the guy put it on the hoist and immediatly told me I needed a camber kit in the rear. At first I disagreed with him stating that a .75 inch drop does not require a camber kit. I then humored him and asked how much it would be. He told me they were $85 per side, plus install. At that point I told him my tires were not that much. I then asked him what the limits were for camber on the 96 civic. He looked it up and was surprised to see it was -1 degree plus/minus 1 degree. He then backed off the camber kit suggestion.
Upon getting the "bubbles" on the wheels the rear came out as follows.
Rear
Left
Camber
Actual -1.8 deg
Before -1.8 deg
Specified Range -2.0deg to 0.0deg
Toe
Actual 0.09"
Before 0.07"
Specified Range 0.02" to 0.08"
Right
Camber
Actual -1.7 deg
Before -1.7 deg
Specified Range -2.0deg to 0.0deg
Toe
Actual 0.08"
Before 0.10"
Specified Range 0.02" to 0.08"
Total Toe
Actual 0.17"
Before 0.17"
Specified Range 0.04" to 0.16"
Thrust Angle
Actual 0.01 deg
Before -0.02 deg
They said since the toe was so close to being within spec, they just left it. I was kinda :eh: but it saved me $25 as they just checked the alignment and didn't adjust. Total bill: $26.70
Once again, if you have questions, feel free to ask!
With the springs, everything in the front end was perfectly normal. If you want the exact specs, let me know and I'll post them for you.
The rear was what I was worried about. My rear tires have shown slight wear on the insides of the tires. The feathering pattern led me to believe that the toe may be out of wack.
Upon taking it to the shop, the guy put it on the hoist and immediatly told me I needed a camber kit in the rear. At first I disagreed with him stating that a .75 inch drop does not require a camber kit. I then humored him and asked how much it would be. He told me they were $85 per side, plus install. At that point I told him my tires were not that much. I then asked him what the limits were for camber on the 96 civic. He looked it up and was surprised to see it was -1 degree plus/minus 1 degree. He then backed off the camber kit suggestion.
Upon getting the "bubbles" on the wheels the rear came out as follows.
Rear
Left
Camber
Actual -1.8 deg
Before -1.8 deg
Specified Range -2.0deg to 0.0deg
Toe
Actual 0.09"
Before 0.07"
Specified Range 0.02" to 0.08"
Right
Camber
Actual -1.7 deg
Before -1.7 deg
Specified Range -2.0deg to 0.0deg
Toe
Actual 0.08"
Before 0.10"
Specified Range 0.02" to 0.08"
Total Toe
Actual 0.17"
Before 0.17"
Specified Range 0.04" to 0.16"
Thrust Angle
Actual 0.01 deg
Before -0.02 deg
They said since the toe was so close to being within spec, they just left it. I was kinda :eh: but it saved me $25 as they just checked the alignment and didn't adjust. Total bill: $26.70
Once again, if you have questions, feel free to ask!
11-01-2004, 03:56 PM
#2
WRX cuz Honda won't wagon
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Thanks, Hondaman! This totally helps me out.
I'm getting H&R OE springs for my car. I've had a tough time trying to research info I can trust.
I called H&R about the OE's, and the guy on the phone said "no camber kit necessary, and can use stock shocks."
I called Tirerack.com about OE's, and they said I need "compatible lowering struts, like the KYB AGXs for the H&R OE's". They even said that the KYB GR-2's are "according to the manufacturer, not for use with ANY lowering spring.
I called KYB, and they said that they only state that their stuff is known to be compatible with Eibach springs, and "probably are" with other brands. He said, that the GR-2 is also compatible with Eibach prokit (1.5" drop). This contradicts Tirerack's recommendation.
I'm getting H&R OE springs for my car. I've had a tough time trying to research info I can trust.
I called H&R about the OE's, and the guy on the phone said "no camber kit necessary, and can use stock shocks."
I called Tirerack.com about OE's, and they said I need "compatible lowering struts, like the KYB AGXs for the H&R OE's". They even said that the KYB GR-2's are "according to the manufacturer, not for use with ANY lowering spring.
I called KYB, and they said that they only state that their stuff is known to be compatible with Eibach springs, and "probably are" with other brands. He said, that the GR-2 is also compatible with Eibach prokit (1.5" drop). This contradicts Tirerack's recommendation.
11-01-2004, 08:37 PM
#4
Black Pearl
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Per demand, here is how the front end came out:
Left Front
Camber
Actual -0.3 deg
Before -0.3 deg
Specified Range -1.0 deg to 1.0 deg
Toe
Actual 0.01"
Before 0.02"
Specified Range -0.02" to 0.06"
Caster
Actual 1.7 deg
Before 1.7 deg
Specified Range 0.7 deg to 2.7 deg
Right Front
Camber
Actual -0.5 deg
Before -0.5 deg
Specified Range -1.0 deg to 1.0 deg
Toe
Actual 0.02"
Before 0.00"
Specified Range -0.02" to 0.06"
Caster
Actual 1.9 deg
Before 1.9 deg
Specified Range 0.7 deg to 2.7 deg
Front Overall
Cross Camber
Actual 0.2 deg
Before 0.2 deg
Total Toe
Actual 0.02"
Before 0.02"
Specified Range -0.04" to 0.12"
Left Front
Camber
Actual -0.3 deg
Before -0.3 deg
Specified Range -1.0 deg to 1.0 deg
Toe
Actual 0.01"
Before 0.02"
Specified Range -0.02" to 0.06"
Caster
Actual 1.7 deg
Before 1.7 deg
Specified Range 0.7 deg to 2.7 deg
Right Front
Camber
Actual -0.5 deg
Before -0.5 deg
Specified Range -1.0 deg to 1.0 deg
Toe
Actual 0.02"
Before 0.00"
Specified Range -0.02" to 0.06"
Caster
Actual 1.9 deg
Before 1.9 deg
Specified Range 0.7 deg to 2.7 deg
Front Overall
Cross Camber
Actual 0.2 deg
Before 0.2 deg
Total Toe
Actual 0.02"
Before 0.02"
Specified Range -0.04" to 0.12"
11-02-2004, 02:39 PM
#5
WRX cuz Honda won't wagon
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You rock, Hondaman. Dat's da stuff I need.
I've got H&R OE's and KYB AGX's heading my way in the mail from Tirerack. (I got the H&R's for $101 for an almost new set they used only in a photoshoot.
Hondaman, let us know if you discover anything else. Any more spring settling?
I've got H&R OE's and KYB AGX's heading my way in the mail from Tirerack. (I got the H&R's for $101 for an almost new set they used only in a photoshoot.
Hondaman, let us know if you discover anything else. Any more spring settling?
11-22-2004, 10:35 AM
#6
WRX cuz Honda won't wagon
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Ok, I got my H&R OE springs and KYB AGXs and installed them this weekend. The stupid front AGX rod of the strut BROKE when I put on the bolt for the end cap (it's hollow with the adjuster in it) and oil starting leaking out. Now I have to get this stupid one replaced.
Anyways, my car sat almost immediately to the 0.75" drop H&R advertised and camber on the front looks ok, but the rear is clearly negative. I'm thinking about doing the washer trick with just one washer and stock bolts (are they long enough?)
When I get the replacement strut I'll get an alignment.
My ride is still comfortable, even on crappy NorCalifornia freeways, although it's noticeably stiffer. H&R says "about 20% stiffer compared to stock" and from a general street driving feel, I'd say that's a good approximation. Since these are nonlinear springs (just like stock) you can't affix a single number to them. I describe the stocks as having a very low spring rate at the very beginning of compression (for comfort) which gives the soft rolling in the turns. The H&R's have a much more aggressive ramping up of the spring rate so only the smallest bumps are absorbed by the "softer" region. Then the H&R's quickly get into their stiffer region (not as stiff as race springs, obsviously). This does a great job of reducing the high frequency vibrations that shake your balls off. Bigger bumps, like road gaps, pot holes, and transitions are going to be felt with a small jolt of the stiffer springs. I don't think they'd be uncomfortable on a long trip, but we'll see.
My AGX's were set to the factory setting front: 2 of 4 and rear: 4 of 8. I haven't adjusted them yet.
Body roll is very noticeably reduced... the whole reason why I got this setup for this commuter.
Anyways, my car sat almost immediately to the 0.75" drop H&R advertised and camber on the front looks ok, but the rear is clearly negative. I'm thinking about doing the washer trick with just one washer and stock bolts (are they long enough?)
When I get the replacement strut I'll get an alignment.
My ride is still comfortable, even on crappy NorCalifornia freeways, although it's noticeably stiffer. H&R says "about 20% stiffer compared to stock" and from a general street driving feel, I'd say that's a good approximation. Since these are nonlinear springs (just like stock) you can't affix a single number to them. I describe the stocks as having a very low spring rate at the very beginning of compression (for comfort) which gives the soft rolling in the turns. The H&R's have a much more aggressive ramping up of the spring rate so only the smallest bumps are absorbed by the "softer" region. Then the H&R's quickly get into their stiffer region (not as stiff as race springs, obsviously). This does a great job of reducing the high frequency vibrations that shake your balls off. Bigger bumps, like road gaps, pot holes, and transitions are going to be felt with a small jolt of the stiffer springs. I don't think they'd be uncomfortable on a long trip, but we'll see.
My AGX's were set to the factory setting front: 2 of 4 and rear: 4 of 8. I haven't adjusted them yet.
Body roll is very noticeably reduced... the whole reason why I got this setup for this commuter.
11-30-2004, 12:56 PM
#9
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Ok, I got an alignement done. I was quite surprised at how bad the camber must have been on my rear wheel. Even WITH 1 washer space at the rear, I still had -1.4 deg camber! It must have been really outta spec with no washer.
Because of the change in height, the entire geometry of the suspension changes, so every wheel of mine had out of spec toe... the worst kind for tire wear. Here's what happened to me:
FRONT (spec, left (actual), left (before), right(actual), right (before)
camber -1.0 to 1.0 -0.6 -0.6 -0.6 -0.6
Caster 0.7 to 2.7 1.4 1.4 1.2 1.2
Toe -0.04 to 0.12 0.06 -0.18 0.06 -0.02
Cross Camber (none specified) 0.0 0.0
Cross Caster (none specified) 0.1 0.1
Total Toe -0.08 to 0.24 0.12 -0.20
REAR (spec, left (actual), left (before), right(actual), right (before)
Camber -2.0 to 0.0 -1.5 -1.4 -1.4 -1.4
Toe 0.04 to 0.16 0.12 0.31 0.11 0.24
Total Toe 0.08 to 0.32 0.23 0.55
Thrust Angle (none specified) 0.01 0.04
BTW, mine is all in degrees; even the toe.
Because of the change in height, the entire geometry of the suspension changes, so every wheel of mine had out of spec toe... the worst kind for tire wear. Here's what happened to me:
FRONT (spec, left (actual), left (before), right(actual), right (before)
camber -1.0 to 1.0 -0.6 -0.6 -0.6 -0.6
Caster 0.7 to 2.7 1.4 1.4 1.2 1.2
Toe -0.04 to 0.12 0.06 -0.18 0.06 -0.02
Cross Camber (none specified) 0.0 0.0
Cross Caster (none specified) 0.1 0.1
Total Toe -0.08 to 0.24 0.12 -0.20
REAR (spec, left (actual), left (before), right(actual), right (before)
Camber -2.0 to 0.0 -1.5 -1.4 -1.4 -1.4
Toe 0.04 to 0.16 0.12 0.31 0.11 0.24
Total Toe 0.08 to 0.32 0.23 0.55
Thrust Angle (none specified) 0.01 0.04
BTW, mine is all in degrees; even the toe.