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Straw veil call sparks Muslim fury

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Old 10-06-2006, 05:57 AM
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reno96teg
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Default Straw veil call sparks Muslim fury

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe...raw/index.html

LONDON, England -- A senior British Cabinet minister has sparked fury by saying that Muslim women who wore full veils made community relations more difficult.

Jack Straw wrote in a newspaper that a veil was "a visible statement of separation and difference" and that he was more comfortable dealing with female visitors to his local political office with their faces uncovered.

But Muslim leaders in Straw's Blackburn constituency in northwest England said many Muslim women would find his comments "offensive and disturbing."

Straw, leader of the House of Commons and the former foreign secretary, said he was concerned that "wearing the full veil was bound to make better, positive relations between the two communities more difficult."

Asked on Friday if he would like veils to be discarded altogether, Straw said: "Yes. It needs to be made clear I am not talking about being prescriptive but with all the caveats, yes, I would rather."

"You cannot force people where they live, that's a matter of choice and economics, but you can be concerned about the implications of separateness and I am," he told the BBC.

Straw originally wrote in the Lancashire Telegraph that he asked women to remove their veils in his constituency office. "I felt uncomfortable about talking to someone 'face to face' who I could not see," he wrote. No one had refused his request, he said.

Straw pointed out that he defended Muslims' rights to wear head scarves and that wearing a full veil "breaks no laws."

But opposition politicians rounded on his comments. Conservative policy director Oliver Letwin said it would be a "dangerous doctrine" to instruct people how to dress, while Liberal Democrat chairman Simon Hughes described the remarks as "insensitive and surprising."

And Straw faced criticism in his own constituency. The Lancashire Council of Mosques said the Commons leader had "misunderstood" the issue and it was "deeply concerned" by his "very insensitive and unwise" statement.

"For such a seasoned and astute politician to make such a comment that has shocked his Muslim constituents seems ill judged and misconceived," a spokesman told the Press Association.

"Many of these women find Mr. Straw's comments both offensive and disturbing."

The radical Hizb ut-Tahrir organization said the Muslim community "does not need lessons in dress from Jack Straw."

"He has once again shown that for Cabinet ministers it is open season on Muslims and Islam," said spokesperson Nazreen Nawaz.

However, Daud Abdullah, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said he understood Straw's views. "This (the veil) does cause some discomfort to non-Muslims. One can understand this," he said.

And some of Straw's colleagues backed Straw, with chairperson Hazel Blears saying his request to constituents was "perfectly proper." Downing Street said the Commons leader was expressing a private opinion.
my God. this is out of fucking hand. :doh:
Old 10-06-2006, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by reno96teg
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe...raw/index.html

my God. this is out of fucking hand. :doh:
What is out of hand? His comments sure were. He shows a complete misunderstanding of their culture.
Old 10-06-2006, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MellowGold
What is out of hand? His comments sure were. He shows a complete misunderstanding of their culture.
When other culture's norms clash with the Host Country usually the HOST COUNRTY (majority) wins.

You gotta ask though, is this particular issue really worth the hassle?
Old 10-06-2006, 11:59 AM
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Why can't the Muslim women speak out about being outraged rather than letting the Muslim men speak for them? Maybe the Muslim men do not want them to because they know the women would like to remove their veils.

It is about time that people learn they need to assimilate into their host countries, not try to maintain a seperation. If you do not like it there then go somewhere you will fit in.
Old 10-06-2006, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MellowGold
What is out of hand? His comments sure were. He shows a complete misunderstanding of their culture.
you just don't get it, do you?
Old 10-06-2006, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DVPGSR
Why can't the Muslim women speak out about being outraged rather than letting the Muslim men speak for them? Maybe the Muslim men do not want them to because they know the women would like to remove their veils.

It is about time that people learn they need to assimilate into their host countries, not try to maintain a seperation. If you do not like it there then go somewhere you will fit in.
It is a religious thing. The women DO want to wear them. They believe it is a sign of modesty and respect, not a symbol of oppression. You people act as if Muslim men are tyrants who think women are the scum of the earth. The origin of the veils are actually so that men are not tempted by women's beauty! That does not exactly sound like oppression to me.

Assimilate? So you believe that religious traditions should just be disregarded completely so that they will 'fit in'? You have got to be joking me.

Originally Posted by reno96teg
you just don't get it, do you?
I get that his comments were completely needless and just made people mad.
Old 10-06-2006, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MellowGold
It is a religious thing. The women DO want to wear them. They believe it is a sign of modesty and respect, not a symbol of oppression. You people act as if Muslim men are tyrants who think women are the scum of the earth. The origin of the veils are actually so that men are not tempted by women's beauty! That does not exactly sound like oppression to me.

Assimilate? So you believe that religious traditions should just be disregarded completely so that they will 'fit in'? You have got to be joking me.



I get that his comments were completely needless and just made people mad.
If women want to wear the veil then let the women come out and say so. Why do the men have to speak for them? How are you so certain that ALL women want to wear them? Did you go and ask every one of them?

I do not think all Muslim men are tyrants but the ones that used to beat women in Afghanistan for exposing too much flesh, or the Ministry of Vice and Virtue in Iran that goes around with stick beating women that they deem are dressed too provocatively are tyrants.

Who said anything about disregarding religous traditions? Way to put words in my mouth. When you are in a host country, a country that is not your own, you need to be sensitive to their cultures and traditions. If you want to fit in they you need to assimilate into that culture. The Irish, Italians, Polish, German, etc. all came to the US and assimilated into the US culture and blended their religous and cultural traditions. It can be done if people choose to do so.
Old 10-10-2006, 07:52 AM
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Interesting...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23370188-details/Salman+Rushdie+says+Muslim+veils+'suck'/article.do
Old 10-10-2006, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DVPGSR
Interesting...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23370188-details/Salman+Rushdie+says+Muslim+veils+'suck'/article.do
"Speaking as somebody with three sisters and a very largely female Muslim family, there's not a single woman I know in my family or in their friends who would have accepted wearing the veil.

"I think the battle against the veil has been a long and continuing battle against the limitation of women, so in that sense I'm completely on [Straw's] side.

"He was expressing an important opinion, which is that veils suck, which they do. I think the veil is a way of taking power away from women."
stick that in your pipe and smoke it, mellowgold.
Old 10-10-2006, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DVPGSR
Interesting...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23370188-details/Salman+Rushdie+says+Muslim+veils+'suck'/article.do
On a side note, everytime I hear about Salman Rushdie, I think of the Seinfeld episode...

Anyways, I am (of course) a complete advocate of freedom. If these women do not like their veils and do not want to wear them (which may very well be true), then the only thing that will stop it will be the women. They need to start stepping up. Just as in any fight for rights, it will be long and hard, but no one can do it for them.



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