2005 Acura RL (Honda Legend)
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Oceanside, CA
I'm doubtful they can get 40MPG from a 300HP car, even if it's Hybrid. The Hybrid Civic is getting around mid 40 to 50 MPG and it has about 1/2 the HP. So I'll just have to wait and see if they can really pull it off.
Wannabe yuppie
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Madison, WI
Well, here's a little more confirmation of the RL having 300 hp and awd.
(08:21 Jan. 26, 2004)
Acura plays catch-up with upcoming awd, 300 hp RL sedan
By KATHY JACKSON AND DALE JEWETT
Automotive News
Acura this fall will equip its flagship RL sedan with all-wheel drive and a 300-hp V-6 engine to challenge luxury rivals who offer rear-drive and V-8s, dealers and analysts say. A hybrid gasoline-electric powertrain also could be part of the package.
Acura would not confirm the plan. But at least eight Acura dealers say the division has told them about the 300-hp V-6 with awd. And two analysts, citing conversations with suppliers and people close to the company, support dealer reports that the RL will have a hybrid powertrain.
Such a move would show that American Honda Motor Co. is taking a unique approach - a hybrid geared as much for performance as fuel economy - in a bid to elevate its luxury brand's flagship sedan.
"The next RL will show that Honda continues to think out of the box with powertrains, and that you don't necessarily need a V-8 for luxury cars," says analyst Michael Robinet, vice president of global forecast services for CSM Worldwide in Northville, Mich.
The current RL - with front-wheel drive and a 225-hp, 3.5-liter V-6 - has undersold comparable sedans from import rivals Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Most high-end luxury cars in the United States have V-8 engines and rwd.
The 2004 RL begins at $43,725, including destination. The nameplate's U.S. sales peaked at 16,004 in 1997.
Last year, Acura sold 6,829 RLs, down 27.3 percent from 2002. Lexus sold 23,895 LS 430 sedans; BMW sold 46,964 5-series cars; and Mercedes-Benz sold 55,683 E-class models.
A concept of the redesigned 2005 RL will be shown at the New York auto show in April.
In the past, Acura and Honda concept vehicles have closely resembled the production version.
Acura dealers will see the new RL at their annual dealer meeting Aug. 26 in Chicago. "This will be a big step for us," said one dealer, who, like other dealers, didn't want his name used. "A V-8 is not crucial."
Honda Motor Co. Ltd. does not make V-8 engines. All Acura vehicles are fwd, with the exception of the MDX SUV, which has awd, and the NSX premium sports car, which has rwd.
In an October interview with Automotive News, American Honda Executive Vice President Thomas Elliott said the company was near its limit for increasing horsepower on its fwd platform and soon would decide how to increase power for each of its Acura models.
"We're really close to making a decision on a hybrid," he said, adding that the vehicle could be powered by a 300-hp engine in the front plus 100-hp electric motor in the back. He also said the company was considering awd but not rwd.
At this month's Detroit auto show, Honda Motor Co. CEO Takeo Fukui said the company's strategy was to develop cleaner and more fuel-efficient engines that are fun to drive.
He said the company's cylinder deactivation system, which is designed to deliver greater fuel economy with no sacrifice in performance, would be introduced in the United States this fall on the new Honda V-6 Accord hybrid.
The Accord would be the first V-6 model to use the company's hybrid technology and the first hybrid to use the cylinder deactivation system. He said the deactivation system also would be applied to another V-6 model that would be introduced this year, but he would not identify that vehicle.
Original article: http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=01990871
So there you have it folks, the 300 hp version is going to be a plain old normally aspirated V6. I'm guessing it'll be a 3.5 liter in a similar state of tune as Honda's other current passenger car V6 motors in the Accord and TL, with a 5-speed automatic.
I'm not sure what direction Honda will go with the size of the car. The current RL is a few inches larger than the TL in every dimension except for height. The TL has more interior volume. I think the RL needs to be noticeably larger than the TL for people to actually differentiate the two cars, yet at the same time it can't be too big which will take it out of comparison with the E-class, 5-series and A6. I'm guessing it will be about the same size as the new Cadillac STS which is an inch or two smaller than the BMW 745i (the short wheelbase version). The TL and CTS are both about the size of a 5-series or E-class so the STS seems like a good size target for the RL.
(08:21 Jan. 26, 2004)
Acura plays catch-up with upcoming awd, 300 hp RL sedan
By KATHY JACKSON AND DALE JEWETT
Automotive News
Acura this fall will equip its flagship RL sedan with all-wheel drive and a 300-hp V-6 engine to challenge luxury rivals who offer rear-drive and V-8s, dealers and analysts say. A hybrid gasoline-electric powertrain also could be part of the package.
Acura would not confirm the plan. But at least eight Acura dealers say the division has told them about the 300-hp V-6 with awd. And two analysts, citing conversations with suppliers and people close to the company, support dealer reports that the RL will have a hybrid powertrain.
Such a move would show that American Honda Motor Co. is taking a unique approach - a hybrid geared as much for performance as fuel economy - in a bid to elevate its luxury brand's flagship sedan.
"The next RL will show that Honda continues to think out of the box with powertrains, and that you don't necessarily need a V-8 for luxury cars," says analyst Michael Robinet, vice president of global forecast services for CSM Worldwide in Northville, Mich.
The current RL - with front-wheel drive and a 225-hp, 3.5-liter V-6 - has undersold comparable sedans from import rivals Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Most high-end luxury cars in the United States have V-8 engines and rwd.
The 2004 RL begins at $43,725, including destination. The nameplate's U.S. sales peaked at 16,004 in 1997.
Last year, Acura sold 6,829 RLs, down 27.3 percent from 2002. Lexus sold 23,895 LS 430 sedans; BMW sold 46,964 5-series cars; and Mercedes-Benz sold 55,683 E-class models.
A concept of the redesigned 2005 RL will be shown at the New York auto show in April.
In the past, Acura and Honda concept vehicles have closely resembled the production version.
Acura dealers will see the new RL at their annual dealer meeting Aug. 26 in Chicago. "This will be a big step for us," said one dealer, who, like other dealers, didn't want his name used. "A V-8 is not crucial."
Honda Motor Co. Ltd. does not make V-8 engines. All Acura vehicles are fwd, with the exception of the MDX SUV, which has awd, and the NSX premium sports car, which has rwd.
In an October interview with Automotive News, American Honda Executive Vice President Thomas Elliott said the company was near its limit for increasing horsepower on its fwd platform and soon would decide how to increase power for each of its Acura models.
"We're really close to making a decision on a hybrid," he said, adding that the vehicle could be powered by a 300-hp engine in the front plus 100-hp electric motor in the back. He also said the company was considering awd but not rwd.
At this month's Detroit auto show, Honda Motor Co. CEO Takeo Fukui said the company's strategy was to develop cleaner and more fuel-efficient engines that are fun to drive.
He said the company's cylinder deactivation system, which is designed to deliver greater fuel economy with no sacrifice in performance, would be introduced in the United States this fall on the new Honda V-6 Accord hybrid.
The Accord would be the first V-6 model to use the company's hybrid technology and the first hybrid to use the cylinder deactivation system. He said the deactivation system also would be applied to another V-6 model that would be introduced this year, but he would not identify that vehicle.
Original article: http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=01990871
So there you have it folks, the 300 hp version is going to be a plain old normally aspirated V6. I'm guessing it'll be a 3.5 liter in a similar state of tune as Honda's other current passenger car V6 motors in the Accord and TL, with a 5-speed automatic.
I'm not sure what direction Honda will go with the size of the car. The current RL is a few inches larger than the TL in every dimension except for height. The TL has more interior volume. I think the RL needs to be noticeably larger than the TL for people to actually differentiate the two cars, yet at the same time it can't be too big which will take it out of comparison with the E-class, 5-series and A6. I'm guessing it will be about the same size as the new Cadillac STS which is an inch or two smaller than the BMW 745i (the short wheelbase version). The TL and CTS are both about the size of a 5-series or E-class so the STS seems like a good size target for the RL.
Thread Starter
HC Racer H5
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,261
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From: KCK
http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=43350&dm=yes
USA: Next Honda-built Acura RL to get 300bhp V6 hybrid engine - report
The California-based website Autospies claims the next RL model from Honda luxury car division Acura will have a 300bhp six-cylinder hybrid engine.
The report added that most US pundits are expecting a petrol V8 with rear wheel drive, rather than the current model’s front wheel drive.
The Acura brand, launched in the mid-1980s with rebadged Honda Legend and Concerto models, is unique to the USA, as are many of the cars in the current model line, most of which are built in either the US or Canada.
Honda is already well-established in North America as a maker of hybrid cars, and currently sells the Insight coupe and the Civic Hybrid sedan with petrol-electric engines.
Earlier this month, Honda announced plans to introduce a petrol-electric hybrid version of its top-selling Accord sedan this autumn.
The V6 engine in the new Accord derivative will provide fuel economy similar to a four-cylinder Civic, Honda president and chief executive Takeo Fukui said at the announcement, adding: "We have always targeted the world's most advanced technologies."
The current RL is about the same size as the US market Accord, which is also sold in the Far East and Australasia, and offering the redesigned Acura with the Accord’s V6 hybrid driveline would give Honda welcome additional volume.
The California-based website Autospies claims the next RL model from Honda luxury car division Acura will have a 300bhp six-cylinder hybrid engine.
The report added that most US pundits are expecting a petrol V8 with rear wheel drive, rather than the current model’s front wheel drive.
The Acura brand, launched in the mid-1980s with rebadged Honda Legend and Concerto models, is unique to the USA, as are many of the cars in the current model line, most of which are built in either the US or Canada.
Honda is already well-established in North America as a maker of hybrid cars, and currently sells the Insight coupe and the Civic Hybrid sedan with petrol-electric engines.
Earlier this month, Honda announced plans to introduce a petrol-electric hybrid version of its top-selling Accord sedan this autumn.
The V6 engine in the new Accord derivative will provide fuel economy similar to a four-cylinder Civic, Honda president and chief executive Takeo Fukui said at the announcement, adding: "We have always targeted the world's most advanced technologies."
The current RL is about the same size as the US market Accord, which is also sold in the Far East and Australasia, and offering the redesigned Acura with the Accord’s V6 hybrid driveline would give Honda welcome additional volume.
Wannabe yuppie
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Madison, WI
I dunno what's up with the hybrid idea, the autoweek article says the next RL will have 300 hp without any sort of hybrid drivetrain. The article you posted jaje quotes AutoSpies as their source. The standard drivetrain seems more likely to me since the TL already has 270 hp; it wouldn't be too hard for Honda to produce a motor with more displacement that puts out 30 more hp without the aid of any hybrid gadgets.
Thread Starter
HC Racer H5
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,261
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From: KCK
well since they say that the RL will have awd (finally) and honda showing the several hybrid performance concepts (RD-X & HSC) it might be a fwd with electric power to the rear wheels for instant torque at 0 rpms
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
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As far as the horsepower output of the next RL, I think 300hp is a good guess. When we look at the current Honda/Acura sedan lineup, the trend is in the following:
Honda Civic EX: 127hp
Honda Accord DX/LX/EX: 160hp (+33hp from Civic EX)
Acura TSX: 200hp (+40hp from Accord 4 cylinders)
Honda Accord LX-V6/EX-V6: 240hp (+40hp from TSX)
Acura TL: 270hp (+30hp from Accord V6)
So If we add 30hp to the TL, the horsepower of the next RL is 300hp.
Honda Civic EX: 127hp
Honda Accord DX/LX/EX: 160hp (+33hp from Civic EX)
Acura TSX: 200hp (+40hp from Accord 4 cylinders)
Honda Accord LX-V6/EX-V6: 240hp (+40hp from TSX)
Acura TL: 270hp (+30hp from Accord V6)
So If we add 30hp to the TL, the horsepower of the next RL is 300hp.
lots and lots of fail
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,004
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From: Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeetroit
Debut will be at NYIAS...Can't wait! Look for a huge sales year from Acura with the new TL and now the RL being around.
Acura will show the replacement for its RL flagship sedan at April's New York auto show. While many automakers now feel that a V-8 engine is necessary in a luxury sedan, Acura plans to keep the RL V-6-powered. Engine displacement will reportedly increase to 3.7 liters from 3.5. Honda officials say the six will provide adequate power for the RL, and point out that Acura's sportiest model, the NSX, makes 290 horsepower with a smaller V-6. The new RL will go on sale this fall, and will switch from front- to all-wheel drive.
