No Honda V8 or RWD, unless...
06-23-2002, 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by DVPGSR
OK let me weigh in here with my opinion...
The NSX does not need a V8...a V6 with IMA would be more than enough for it. I would like to see it AWD though.
As for a V8 in other applications I am torn between the two sides, V8 or V6 with IMA. On one hand I would think that making a V8 would be advantageous for Honda. It could put it in the RL, MDX and even make another SUV to compete with the Sequoia (sp), Land Cruiser and the Lexus counter part. However if the RL does not compete with the 7, A8, S-Class, LS, etc then a V6 with IMA would be great. And it would give bragging rights to Honda and most likely pull sales away from the Q.
If Honda does have a V8 from Mugen than I think they should offer the RL and MDX in limited quantities, much in the same manner the CL w/. 6spd is. This way they can judge if it would sell well and they should mass produce them. But they should definately move forward on the V6 with IMA. That is going to be huge in the Accord, Pilot, CL, TL, Odysey, & NSX...plus they get the bragging rights for being the first company to mass produce a car with V6 IMA.
I say give the V8 a shot. YOu are never going to know how the public will react to it unless you put a finished product in their hands.
OK let me weigh in here with my opinion...
The NSX does not need a V8...a V6 with IMA would be more than enough for it. I would like to see it AWD though.
As for a V8 in other applications I am torn between the two sides, V8 or V6 with IMA. On one hand I would think that making a V8 would be advantageous for Honda. It could put it in the RL, MDX and even make another SUV to compete with the Sequoia (sp), Land Cruiser and the Lexus counter part. However if the RL does not compete with the 7, A8, S-Class, LS, etc then a V6 with IMA would be great. And it would give bragging rights to Honda and most likely pull sales away from the Q.
If Honda does have a V8 from Mugen than I think they should offer the RL and MDX in limited quantities, much in the same manner the CL w/. 6spd is. This way they can judge if it would sell well and they should mass produce them. But they should definately move forward on the V6 with IMA. That is going to be huge in the Accord, Pilot, CL, TL, Odysey, & NSX...plus they get the bragging rights for being the first company to mass produce a car with V6 IMA.
I say give the V8 a shot. YOu are never going to know how the public will react to it unless you put a finished product in their hands.
Also, Honda's CART V8 is 2.65L with tons of boost. A production engine wouldnt be the same. Are there other Honda V8's?
Also, I would think the Accord would be an Inline-4 with IMA, not a V6. Just depends what market they are going to go after with it.
As far as the public, why wouldnt they react well to a Honda V8?
06-23-2002, 07:44 PM
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I would assume that Honda is holding off on a V8 because they think it is not profitable for them to produce one. One would think the public would love to have a Honda V8...and if so why the hesitation on Honda's part to produce one for a production vehicle. I am willing to bet that an RL w/. a V8 would sell well if priced in the 50's, and Honda should be able to turn a profit on it.
06-23-2002, 09:50 PM
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DVPGSR, the proposition of using IMA with v6 Accord, TL and CL is very exciting indeed. But the additional power output of the IMA will mean these cars will need an AWD or RWD to handle this extra power. Now an AWD and IMA will increase the cost of production too much and make the Accord less competetive in the market (price wise). So I am guessing that if IMA is installed on any Honda cars at all it'll first be used on Acura products, then it'll trickle down to Accord 
PS: I like the idea of having an AWD IMA fitted v6 Limited Edition Accord though =)
PS: I like the idea of having an AWD IMA fitted v6 Limited Edition Accord though =)
06-24-2002, 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by Awais
DVPGSR, the proposition of using IMA with v6 Accord, TL and CL is very exciting indeed. But the additional power output of the IMA will mean these cars will need an AWD or RWD to handle this extra power. Now an AWD and IMA will increase the cost of production too much and make the Accord less competetive in the market (price wise). So I am guessing that if IMA is installed on any Honda cars at all it'll first be used on Acura products, then it'll trickle down to Accord
PS: I like the idea of having an AWD IMA fitted v6 Limited Edition Accord though =)
DVPGSR, the proposition of using IMA with v6 Accord, TL and CL is very exciting indeed. But the additional power output of the IMA will mean these cars will need an AWD or RWD to handle this extra power. Now an AWD and IMA will increase the cost of production too much and make the Accord less competetive in the market (price wise). So I am guessing that if IMA is installed on any Honda cars at all it'll first be used on Acura products, then it'll trickle down to Accord
PS: I like the idea of having an AWD IMA fitted v6 Limited Edition Accord though =)
06-24-2002, 06:57 AM
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I agree that IMA for an I4 will come first for the Acord since they already have an IMA I4 for the Civic. However my earlier post was stressing that IMA is going to become very common in engines and it would be great for Honda to develop and be the first to mass produce cars with a V6 IMA engine in them. They already have the track record for producing environmentally friendly engines and I would like them to have the bragging rights on this one too.
06-24-2002, 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by DVPGSR
I agree that IMA for an I4 will come first for the Acord since they already have an IMA I4 for the Civic. However my earlier post was stressing that IMA is going to become very common in engines and it would be great for Honda to develop and be the first to mass produce cars with a V6 IMA engine in them. They already have the track record for producing environmentally friendly engines and I would like them to have the bragging rights on this one too.
I agree that IMA for an I4 will come first for the Acord since they already have an IMA I4 for the Civic. However my earlier post was stressing that IMA is going to become very common in engines and it would be great for Honda to develop and be the first to mass produce cars with a V6 IMA engine in them. They already have the track record for producing environmentally friendly engines and I would like them to have the bragging rights on this one too.
BTW, I bet the Durango Hybrid only gets like 25-29 MPG, and they applaud it all freaking day.
06-24-2002, 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by Awais
yianni, Mugen recently developed a new 4 litre v8. i think it was NA but i am not too sure about it.
yianni, Mugen recently developed a new 4 litre v8. i think it was NA but i am not too sure about it.
06-24-2002, 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by 02RSXTYPES
They already have 2 wonderful AWD systems..no need to develop another. And one can be fitted right into the Accord...how convenient. As far as IMA V6, I sincerely doubt it in the TL/CL/Accord. I4 IMA is much, much more likely.
They already have 2 wonderful AWD systems..no need to develop another. And one can be fitted right into the Accord...how convenient. As far as IMA V6, I sincerely doubt it in the TL/CL/Accord. I4 IMA is much, much more likely.
The main cost of IMA systems today is the batterry. My dad went to this engineers meeting Honda held last month (which i would have gone to if it wasnt for my stupid ap chemistry exam) and some guy asked, How much does the batterry cost? The Honda guy said, "If I told you youd run of screaming. But dont worry about it, its under warranty, and by the time the warranty runs out, they will be A LOT cheaper."
06-26-2002, 05:09 PM
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More V-8, RWD info from Honda
Looks like V-8's and RWD are not in Honda's near future (article taken from Autoweek :
"Honda says it will resist trend to produce V-8, rwd vehicles
Company cites philosophy; analysts say cost is factor
By MARK RECHTIN
Automotive News
LOS ANGELES -- Despite the auto industry's revived interest in V-8 engines and rear-wheel-drive cars, Honda Motor Co. Ltd. will stand by its contrarian reputation and resist both trends, a top engineer says.
Honda says smaller engines and front-wheel-drive vehicles fit the company's environmental conscience. But some industry watchers say that V-8s and rwd cars would be too costly for Honda.
Tomoyuki Sugiyama, executive chief engineer of Honda R&D Co. Ltd., said Honda can make its V-6 engines powerful enough to take on V-8s and make its fwd platforms as performance-oriented as other automakers' rwd vehicles.
"Other automakers have V-8 engines, so we would just become one of them. Technically, we can do a V-12 if you want. But this has more to do with the Honda philosophy in dealing with the environment, the future and energy consumption," Sugiyama said in an interview at the media introduction of the 2003 Honda Accord.
Sugiyama said Honda prefers fwd because it makes for a lighter vehicle and more tire grip on slippery roads.
Honda uses rwd on two sporty cars, the S2000 and NSX. Honda also has all-wheel-drive technology, though it is derived from the Japan-market fwd Accord.
"There was a time in the past when front-engine, front drive was considered lesser than rear drive because of NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) concerns and driving feel," Sugiyama said. "But today we have the technology to provide excellent high-performance, even though a car might be front drive. Honda feels no crucial need to develop rear-wheel drive."
Honda Motor President Hiroyuki Yoshino has resisted calls for Honda to build a V-8 engine.
For nearly a decade, analysts have predicted Honda's entry into both V-8 and rwd segments because luxury vehicles such as the fwd Acura 3.5RL have fared poorly against its V-8-powered competition.
The trend toward rwd is growing: The Chrysler group will replace the Dodge Intrepid and Chrysler Concorde with rwd cars in 2003. General Motors will revive the Pontiac GTO next year with a rwd car from its Australian subsidiary.
Honda insiders confirm the automaker has gathered reams of market research on V-8s and rwd, but recouping the massive development costs is overwhelming.
A consultant who declined to be named estimated that developing and tooling up both a rwd platform and a V-8 engine family would conservatively cost $2 billion. At that cost, even if Honda sold 100,000 such equipped vehicles a year, it would take 20 years to recoup its investment, the consultant said.
Dan Bonawitz, American Honda Motor Co. Inc. vice president of planning and logistics, agreed that the high costs are a barrier. "There is a significant investment involved, and you have to have the volume to get the return on your investment. The U.S. may have big horsepower V-8 bragging rights, but a lot is changing with the certification of fuel economy standards, the fuel supply and environmental regulations. We need to show other options."
The market for V-8 rwd vehicles is small, with many costing more than $50,000.
"Having a V-8 and rear drive doesn't guarantee success or large volumes. Just look at the new Infiniti Q45," Bonawitz said.
The Q45 has sold just 1,676 units through May, off 38 percent from a lackluster 2001.
"Other companies do a large V-8 as an image halo," Bonawitz said. "But does Acura need it to be considered successful? No."
There also is the matter of manufacturing productivity. Honda and Acura claim 7 percent of the U.S. market with just 3 percent of the product offerings, Bonawitz said.
Adding low-volume products equipped with a V-8 or rwd or both would lower that manufacturing productivity. "
- Article from June 16, 2002 ed.
__________________________________________________ __
My own personal opinion is that you can't really use a high horspower RWD car in snow belt areas, especially with 50-series or lower profile tires.
"Honda says it will resist trend to produce V-8, rwd vehicles
Company cites philosophy; analysts say cost is factor
By MARK RECHTIN
Automotive News
LOS ANGELES -- Despite the auto industry's revived interest in V-8 engines and rear-wheel-drive cars, Honda Motor Co. Ltd. will stand by its contrarian reputation and resist both trends, a top engineer says.
Honda says smaller engines and front-wheel-drive vehicles fit the company's environmental conscience. But some industry watchers say that V-8s and rwd cars would be too costly for Honda.
Tomoyuki Sugiyama, executive chief engineer of Honda R&D Co. Ltd., said Honda can make its V-6 engines powerful enough to take on V-8s and make its fwd platforms as performance-oriented as other automakers' rwd vehicles.
"Other automakers have V-8 engines, so we would just become one of them. Technically, we can do a V-12 if you want. But this has more to do with the Honda philosophy in dealing with the environment, the future and energy consumption," Sugiyama said in an interview at the media introduction of the 2003 Honda Accord.
Sugiyama said Honda prefers fwd because it makes for a lighter vehicle and more tire grip on slippery roads.
Honda uses rwd on two sporty cars, the S2000 and NSX. Honda also has all-wheel-drive technology, though it is derived from the Japan-market fwd Accord.
"There was a time in the past when front-engine, front drive was considered lesser than rear drive because of NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) concerns and driving feel," Sugiyama said. "But today we have the technology to provide excellent high-performance, even though a car might be front drive. Honda feels no crucial need to develop rear-wheel drive."
Honda Motor President Hiroyuki Yoshino has resisted calls for Honda to build a V-8 engine.
For nearly a decade, analysts have predicted Honda's entry into both V-8 and rwd segments because luxury vehicles such as the fwd Acura 3.5RL have fared poorly against its V-8-powered competition.
The trend toward rwd is growing: The Chrysler group will replace the Dodge Intrepid and Chrysler Concorde with rwd cars in 2003. General Motors will revive the Pontiac GTO next year with a rwd car from its Australian subsidiary.
Honda insiders confirm the automaker has gathered reams of market research on V-8s and rwd, but recouping the massive development costs is overwhelming.
A consultant who declined to be named estimated that developing and tooling up both a rwd platform and a V-8 engine family would conservatively cost $2 billion. At that cost, even if Honda sold 100,000 such equipped vehicles a year, it would take 20 years to recoup its investment, the consultant said.
Dan Bonawitz, American Honda Motor Co. Inc. vice president of planning and logistics, agreed that the high costs are a barrier. "There is a significant investment involved, and you have to have the volume to get the return on your investment. The U.S. may have big horsepower V-8 bragging rights, but a lot is changing with the certification of fuel economy standards, the fuel supply and environmental regulations. We need to show other options."
The market for V-8 rwd vehicles is small, with many costing more than $50,000.
"Having a V-8 and rear drive doesn't guarantee success or large volumes. Just look at the new Infiniti Q45," Bonawitz said.
The Q45 has sold just 1,676 units through May, off 38 percent from a lackluster 2001.
"Other companies do a large V-8 as an image halo," Bonawitz said. "But does Acura need it to be considered successful? No."
There also is the matter of manufacturing productivity. Honda and Acura claim 7 percent of the U.S. market with just 3 percent of the product offerings, Bonawitz said.
Adding low-volume products equipped with a V-8 or rwd or both would lower that manufacturing productivity. "
- Article from June 16, 2002 ed.
__________________________________________________ __
My own personal opinion is that you can't really use a high horspower RWD car in snow belt areas, especially with 50-series or lower profile tires.