i don't understand the purpose of bringing this car over. it will compete against TL and Accord...

 

1) It is smaller than the Accord, and therefore sportier with better handling. Acura will market this to people who want Honda reliability and drivetrain, but don't want a bland Accord. Hence 340 watt 8 speaker sound system.

2) It is way smaller than the TL, and the TL will move upmarket slightly in the 2004 model

3) It comes with a 6 speed manual, which no J Series engine 4 door sedan does

4) It is a no risk proposition

5) The entry level luxury market is the largest growing market by far

6) It is priced exactly between the TL and Accord EX-V6.

 

Please read the 2 TSX threads we have currently. TSX won't compete with the TL. It will overlap with the Accord a bit like the A4 to the Passat, but it will carry a luxury nameplate and more luxury options and drive a bit more sportier with better handling than the US-spec Accord.

 

but the price gap between accord and TL isn't that big. if you get a V6 Accord that is. VW and Audi does a better job cuz they offer a wider range of engines. Passet I4 V6 W8

 

The TSX will overlap pricing of the US-spec Accord just like the A4 1.8t to the Passat V6. Price of an A4 1.8 is overlapped with the Passat V6. The TL will compete more with the A4 3.0.

 

the point of this car is to get back the market lost by the 4 door Integra

 

From Car magazine:

If Volkswagen can do it...
New Accord puts quality ahead of the driving experience

'New Accord - premium quality with excellent ownership costs.' As press release hedlines go, it's hardly the most captivating one we've ever read, but it gives you an insight as to Honda's aspirations for the seventh generation of its Mondeo-size saloon. Forget about the hardcore Type R versions this time around; the new Accord is no sports saloon. But that hasn't stopped the VW Passat from being a desirable thing to own, and that territory is where Honda really wants to be with this car.

Given the massive shift in buyer tastes towards premium Euro brands, it's no surprise to find that the Accord makes every effort to mimic the likes of the Passat and Audi A4, both inside and out. While the inside is a notable success, it's hard to say the same about the exterior. The problem is the rear end, which looks as though it has swallowed a shipping container - very square, high decked and deep-flanked. Meanwhile, the nose looks like it's from a completely different car - a Mazda 6, perhaps. It's not a pretty sight.

As you'd expect, the new Accord's external dimensions have swelled a little compared with its predecessor, with a 65mm jump in overall length and a corresponding increase in height (by 15mm) and width (10mm). However, the fact that the chassis is essentially carried over from the old car means there's no change in wheelbase or suspension layout, although the tracks are wider and torsional rigidity is improved by 17 percent.

While the outgoing Accord was built in the UK and quite distinct from the Japanes and American versions, this time there's no Europe-specific model. It's the Japanese version that's coming to Europe, unchanged apart from slightly firmer dampers and significant differences in specification. Honda claims the Japanese version was developed on British roads and at the Nurburgring (where else?) with European tastes in mind, so in theory we shouldn't be losing out in the deal.

With cars now being shipped out from Japan (thereby removing some of the flexibility to spec up cars to individual tastes), Honda has done pretty much what Lexus does and loaded its cars with standard equipment to leave very little need for options. There are four trim levels - SE, Sport, Type S and Executive - with the entry-level 2.0 SE kicking off at £16,495 and the 2.4 Executive capping the range at £21,095. A five-speed automatic with tiptronic manual override is a £1000 option on all but the 2.4 Type S, which sticks with a six-speed manual (one ratio more generous than on 2.0-litre models).

The cabin is where the Accord scores most of its points. The quality of the plastics and switchgear is easily a match for the likes of Volkswagen and Volvo, with bery little that looks overly shiny or brittle. The overall effect is a lot classier than any of its Japanese rivals (including Lexus) can manage. The Accord is competitive in terms of space, too, with an extra 15mm of rear legroom over its predecessor and the car's enhanced width and height paying off here, although first impressions are that it's no better than, say, the Mazda 6.

All of the old single-cam engines have been ditched in favour of two twin-cam i-VETCs - the 153 bhp 2.0 from the Stream and a new 187 bp 2.4-litre version. In the Type S tested here, the latter is a typical Honda engine - smooth, zingy, highly strung, a willing accomplice when you want to push hard (especially when mated to the sweetest manual 'box outside of a 911). Credit to Honda for thinking about flexibility a bit, but this sort of car still needs more torque than the 164 lb-ft it's got. Rarely does this engine feel like it's making the best part of 190 bhp, while the new drive-by-wire throttle is frustratingly jerky in light on/off applications.

The Type S--no different from other models apart from a body kit and anodised wheels--could well be the hottest version we get; even if they do a new Type R in Japan, there's no guarantee that it will come to Europe. Better news is that Honda is working on an all-new 2.2-liter common-rail diesel with around 150 bhp - and about time, too. Only problem is that we'll have to wait until spring 2004 for it to arrive. Before that, there's also the prospect of the Accord Tourer, a whopping wagon version with a stretched wheelbase and electric tailgate that will go on sale in May, three months after the saloon.

While the Mazda 6 has proved that the Japanese can compete dynamically with the best in Europe, the Accord is unable to make the same claim. At first it all feels quite sophisticated, firm but comfortable and with a pleasing eagerness to point its nose into corners. But it doesn't take much to expose a strange lack of coordination between steering inputs and body movements and a general shortge of control, the tail trying to step out over mid-corner crests. And the driver has to fight against strong understeer in high-speed sweepers, while the otherwise smooth ride gets unsettled on rippled surfaces.

Honda claims the new Accord will be the class leader on running costs, which, along with its comfortable, classy, welll equipped cabin, certainly makes it worthy of consideration next to a passat. However, we aren't all that keen on the way it looks, and dynamically it's well adrift of the terrific Mazda 6. Honda is on the right track, but the package is nowhere near complete just yet.

Honda Accord 2.4 Type S
Price: £19,095
Engine: 2354cc DOHC 16V i-VTEC four, 187 bhp, 164 lb-ft
Performance: 7.9 sec 0-62 mph, 141 mph top speed, 31.4 mpg
On sale in UK: February
Rating: 3 stars out of a possible 5


Just for notes on comparison, the UK Accord has the same dash as the US Accord V6 Coupe (with the carbon fiber trim) and not the TSX. No info on whether or not the TSX has the same tires and suspension calibration as the UK Accord, but the UK Accord supposedly is stiffer than the Japanese-market version so it stands to reason that the TSX will be set up similarly.

 

Top Gear has a more favorable review - they stack it it up with a Nissan Premiera (sp?) and a Mazda 6....they pick the Honda (although the 6 was very close)

 

Eh, I don't know what they're talking about styling wise, I like the way the TSX looks. Oh well.

 

Here's the only article I could find about it at Top Gear's site: http://www.topgear.beeb.com/servlet/...Number=08.html

The Honda Accord, good though it always was, has long been perceived as a car for people who worked hard, saved a little for their dotage and who say things like, ‘Aye, well, it’ll see me out.’

I actually had a Honda Accord once, about 12 years ago, and it was terribly good. Comfy, reliable, and all the rest of it. With the then trick 2.2-litre injection engine, it was even quite quick, but still somehow most effective at accelerating the ageing process.

This appears, at last, to have changed. The Accord has emerged from the Shiseido Spa and shiatsu pressure-point massage with Japanese oshiboris hot flannel techniques (rather like the reviewer did at the launch hotel) to a new life. The new Accord – and it is all new – is full of vigour. It’s just a pity that the Zen-inspired ki method didn’t have such a profound effect on your correspondent.

It now looks much more handsome and contemporary, though still sensible enough to be passed on to your parents when you’ve finished with it. I can’t actually remember what the outgoing Accord looked like, so this must be an improvement.

Inside – always a bit of a weak point with bigger Hondas – things are similarly encouraging. It’s still, like the bushido code, a bit severe and not helped by a rather hard and unyielding facia, but it’s cohesive and even quite stylish in a bachelor pad sort of way. Details of note are the electro-luminescent instruments, which appear to float in space inside the binnacle, and the multi-function screen with a mixture of buttons and touch controls. It’s one of the best so far. As usual, it’s all meticulously slotted together.

There will eventually be some diesel Accords, plus a rather stylish estate, but to start with there are saloons with two new i-VTEC petrol engines of two- and 2.4-litre capacity, the two-litre already being familiar from the Stream and CR-V. These are classically free-spinning Honda jobs, but the days when a Honda VTEC engine came into its own at the point where others would have exploded has gone. These are tractable and torquey, so it’s a pity the electronic throttle pedal is so sensitive in the first billimetre [sic] of travel. It really needs a first-pressure position, like the trigger of a Lee-Enfield rifle.

If you could stick your head down the front of these engines and observe a centre-punch mark on the end of the crankshaft, you would discover that, for the first time in Honda car history, they rotate the ‘correct’ way, which is clockwise as you’d be looking at it. This opens up all sorts of opportunities for the maker, such as fitting a five-speed auto gearbox. There are also slick five- and six-speed manuals, depending on which engine you have, and trims including SE, Executive, Sport and, at the other extreme, the 2.4 Type-S.

Once on the move the Accord quickly establishes itself as a really well-sorted car. The ride is a bit hard for my tastes, especially in the sportier guises, and a slight anomaly is that the less sophisticated power steering of the lowly 2.0 SE is the most responsive. But there’s no doubting the work that has gone into damping, body control and rigidity. The ride is what Bentley would call ‘firm but refined’, and they and others could do worse than saw an Accord up to see how it’s done. Noise suppression is also pretty impressive.

The faintly thuggish Type-S ought to be the Accord of choice but I prefer the 2.4 Executive, despite not being one myself, with that new five-speed auto gearbox. Power and spec are actually as the Type-S’s anyway, but you get a slightly easier ride and the relief of executive-style trim in the cabin. The automatic shift is very good and still offers the pedantic the option of manual changing.

Nice car. And, to Honda’s credit, quality and projected residuals are still such that it could feature in any well-planned retirement. It’s traditional, after all, and the population is getting older and packing in work earlier.

At the car’s launch, there was an original series one Accord in the hotel car park, hand-painted in dark blue. It’s owner was clearly hanging in there because the car was looking very weary indeed. But my money is still on the Honda.

I'll see if I can't find that comparison test.