I'm actually impressed. A decent looking Pontiac inside and out. Other than the wtf steering wheel, that interior is actually pretty damn nice looking for a Pontiac. 340hp 5.7L LS1 V8 @ around $30k is definitely attractive.

 

Not bad at all. Exterior styling isnt too great, but its not ugly by any means.

Why is it a 5.7 "Litre"? An "american" muscle car doesnt have a 5.7 "Liter" engine? i wonder if that spelling is final.

 

Yeah bro...5.7 Litre? :eh: That's weird. Kind of looks like a G3 Integra IMO...especially from the side. I like it. At least Pontiac didn't do that red numbers/letters thing for the HVAC display...I'm so sick of that.

How come it's only one exhaust? I'd say two howitzers out the back a la G35C would do the engine alot more justice.

 

didnt notice that. on a big V8 like that, a single pipe would be somewhat restrictive. kinda funny how some cars who dont even need twin pipes have em, but this doesnt.

 

Exterior is a godsend considering what GM is drawing up for the Grand Prix and what became of the....Aztek. :barf:


The "Litre" thing is probably taken from the HSV GTO (think of it as the SVT of Monaro) from Australia. There's still a lot of Monaro in it since production hasn't started on the US GTOs yet. Notice the speedo is still in km/h.

 

Me likey. =)

 

I doubt that its a single pipe. We used to have a Catera and the dual tips are connected to a single dual channel muffler. Two pipes go all the way up to the cats. BMW does the same.

 

Good point. That's probably exactly what they're doing. But those are luxuryish type cars...especially BMW, they don't like dual exhausts. this is a good 'ol American classic. You'd expect dual exhausts, wouldn't you? I know I would.

 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

No offense to you, but as much as I'm impressed with the GTO, I will laugh out loud if anyone refers anything about the GTO being "American". :fawk:

 

that would make even less sense.

 

I was being sarcastic :fawk:

 

Actually, the Catera is a European car made by Opel (thus the european style influence) brought to the states by GM under a Cadillac badge. However, I do think that American car companies are trying to "blend" into the popular entry level luxury car segment of the market (Bmw 3 series, IS300, etc). I actually prefer the dual exhaust look, but I think this dual exhaust single muffler design is more effective in reducing weight.

 

i think what chris meant was this is a "muscle car" and it should have dual pipes sticking out its rear.

 

I'm well aware what the Catera was. What does that have to do with anything? It was an entry level luxury car. American companies have been trying to get into the entry level luxury segment for 5+ years now, but the LS and 300M are only decent attempts, the Catera was a failure, the CTS has been railed for its poor fit, finish, and interior materials, and the X-Type is way overpriced and way underfeatured. Audi, BMW, M-B, Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti own the segmnent

How much weight does a muffler add? Not enough to make a difference on a car that big.

 

It sure isn't a BMW 3 Series, that's for sure.

 

Yeah, knowing the history of the GTO, I think purists would like to see a traditional dual exhaust setup.

 

BTW, I wasn't trying to argue with you...just giving my $0.02.

And yes, the Catera was a POS. Especially with the standards set by the foreign car makers. The CTS will definately be sub par to its overseas competition - its made by GM.

My point is that GM is making a strong effort to compete with the market, but I never said they were successful at doing so.

Every lb counts. My personal preference is a big heavy car with gobs of power. Not to save every pound to squeeze out that hp/lb ratio. Car makers rarely do what we want them to do.

 

Oh, no argument here. Just a friendly discussion, that's what this board is all about

The CTS will have to get its interior redone for Europe because it's so bad it doesn't meet their standards. Pretty pathetic. GM is making an effort (and a better one since Lutz came in), but they are in over their heads. They need to focus on their bread and butter models (midsize sedans, small sedans) which are currently pieces of crap. The Malibu/Impala is as bland as they get and horribly unreliable, the Cavalier hasn't been redesigned since the NSX came out and is competing with Korean cars...I can go on and on here. It's even more pathetic that GM has to import the GTO from Australia. I think we can all go on and on about GM going down the tubes, though.

 

I beg to differ. The lighter my car, the better. The more power the better.

I rather have a 3000lbs car with 300hp than a 4000lb car with 400hp.

 

And thats why its a personal preference. I'd rather have a 5000lb with 600hp turbo diesel if I had the choice. Btw, when is that Tourareg V10 TDI comin' to the states??

 

My car has dual exhaust from the headers back :blinks innocently:

 

Your M shoe, M roadster, the M3, and the M5 are different bro...they're M cars. Not normal BMW luxury cars.

 

From what I read this car won't be fast unless Pontiac works soe magic. From Automobile magazine----- Think Camaro Z28 + 200lbs of extra weight - 25hp. Australians rate it at 302hp on their DIN rating scale. Valve timing is significantly milder than what you would find on a Firebird. Australians clock the Monaro's 0-60's at a touch less than 7 seconds. Weight-----3,625lbs.

 

600hp turbodiesel? you mean 300hp turbodiesle with 600lbs of torque.

and the V10 might not come to the states.

diesel are good for trucks and suv's. thats it. at least in this country.

 

Were did you hear it will have 340hp?

 

No, I mean 600hp turbo diesel. Thats about 800-900ft/lb torque. I should have started another paragraph regarding the Tourareg. And yes, I know they might not bring it over. It wasn't a real question.

You're so picky yianni.

 

Rear end looks very Saturn. :ugh:

 

Btw, check out last week's Autoweek. Diesels are coming back! I wouldn't mind having a turbo in a sports sedan. Whats not to like about passing a rude driver in 6th gear?

In the article, they said, HP is for Speed, Torque is for Acceleration.

 

The carcinogens spraying out of your tailpipe?

 

okay........ lets make up engines. i rather have a N/A 2.0 inline-4 from honda with 1000hp and 900lbs/ft of torque!

 

Diesel has its emissions advantages and Gas has its emissions advantages. Read the article and you'll learn that diesels are much cleaner than you think. The US is far behind Europe with diesel technology, but it exists.

Do you want to see some dirty hardcore diesel action american style?

Diesel Dynamics

Click on videos. (I have no affiliation)

 

Yeah, he is really picky

Horsepower is a measure of Torque. Remember that.

Diesels smell bad, are hard starting in our harsh winters, are very polluting, and there aren't that many gas stations that sell diesel. Plus the ever important factor: American consumers remember the absolutely pathetic and horribly unreliable diesels that they were fed from the Big 3 twenty years ago. They will never come back. Fuel Cells have a far better future than diesels do in the US.

 

the article stated common knowledge. then tell me why diesels are so slow if they got so much low end torque. its because when you shift at 4,000 rpm you arent able to take advatage of the gearing. so they are still slow.

 

98Coupe, you're exactly right. In fact we used to have a diesel Oldmobile wagon. I think these types of raw zero technology diesels tramatized the US. I think GM completely disregarded one of the major advantages of diesel, and just simply engineered an engine to burn the fuel. If you check out those VW TDIs, the only way you can tell its a diesel is from its split second start up clatter. Now with common-rail fuel injection and all sorts of piston technology, diesels are cleaner burning and much quietier.

BTW, I hope you guys don't think I'm some beer belly trucker. In fact, our household includes a Prius. When I drive my MDX, and see those huge F350 Power Stroke diesels run, sometimes I wish I had a loud beast like that. But in all practicality, I have no use for that type of vehicle.

And from my poor memory of 8th grade physics class, horsepower is essentially a measurement of kinetic energy released over a period of time, right?

 

CleanER.


http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-V...N-Jetta-03.htm

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-V...EN-Golf-03.htm

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/cars-rank0-03.htm

 

Yianni,

Why are you so unpleasant in these discussions?

Anway, to be on the safe side I don't think I have the authority to answer that question. But that doesn't mean you're arguement, point, comment or whatever it is, is accurate. From my impression, diesels thrive in low rpm high load situations. That is their nature. Unless you let AMG have a swing at it:

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evo_news_story.php?id=26907

I'm not even sure what kind of diesel you are driving. Maybe if you learned not to shift so high in a diesel, you will appreciate its characteristics.

I hope I did not -offend- you, again.

 

qtiger,

Yeah, diesel is said to produce emissions that cause cancer. But then again, everything does...?

These are also scores of relatively low tech diesel. In Europe they use low-sulfur diesel, a blend not common in the US. Economically speaking, there isn't much demand for diesel in the US until recently. The majority of the non-commercial diesel customers drive trucks - I highly doubt they're interested in emissions numbers.

I think the mentality of americans should be slightly adjusted so that it is maybe not desired, but at least accepted. We are far from that thanks to GM.

 

There's a TDI down the block...whenever it drives by it's obvious that it's a diesel because of that noise. Let's face it...the sound of a gas engine revving up is much nicer than a diesel engine revving up. They also used to have a diesel Cadillac Eldorado, BTW...let me give you a quote. "Totally unreasonable was the optional diesel version of the same engine, which was rated at 125 horsepower and prone to catastrophic failure. The Olds-built diesel V8 was, quite simply, the worst piece of engineering ever foisted upon the Cadillac buying public — the sort of inexcusable lump that could barely outrun its warranty claims." And Honda gets railed for its V6 transmission problem

I didn't think you were, since you seem pretty smart. Tell your household to get a Civic Hybrid instead of that Prius And welcome to HAN

 

I hate it when threads turn into another diesel discussion. :squint:



:fawk:

 

98Coupe,

I think you're the most intelligent person in this thread. (No sarcasim there)

Yeah, with the Oldsmobile, we had done an engine replacement via warranty. What a hunk of junk. No gobs of torque. Only noise and smoke. Junk.

I completely agree, I've never heard a sweet revving diesel. Maybe someday there will be - I hope.

I'm not sure what you mean about your last paragraph. BTW, the Prius is a great car (we bought it before we even heard any rumors about a Civic Hybrid). I drive an MDX and a 3rd Gen RX7. I used to have a Integra, and we used two have two Accords in the family. In fact, not because its a Honda, but I think the Civic Hybrid is a great competitor to the Prius and I'm trying to convince my girl friend to get one.